Episode 105: What is Truth and How do You Know You have Found it

Jacob Paul: Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts Kimberly Faith and John Mac. The Truth in Love podcast seeks to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.

Kimberly Faith: Well, dad, second anniversary of doing podcasts. What do you think about that?

John McLarty: I think that’s totally amazing.

Kimberly Faith: It’s totally God.

John McLarty: I think back two years, and I do want to remember our first podcast was, you were interviewing Lynn and I. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: And basically saying, mom and dad, why did I grow up part of my life in a teepee? And when we hand our tract out, it has a QR code that leads to that. That’s one of our little hooks. Say, here’s our daughter and she did a podcast. She asked us why she has memories of living in a teepee. But it’s our story of salvation, how the Lord brought us from living in a teepee to the cross of Jesus.That was podcast number one.

Kimberly Faith:  Yeah, it’s a

John McLarty:  And here we are two years later.

Kimberly Faith: It’s a great story. Jesus told stories to teach people. And our story, when it’s deeply infused with the truth and God’s presence, is one of the most powerful assets we have for God’s kingdom. So this podcast is titled, what is truth and how do you know if you found it.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: I think it’s a

John McLarty: That’s what we were looking for, looking for some truth out there.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. You were looking for some truth. Thought you’d find it and have plenty of food.

John McLarty: And we found it in Jesus.

Kimberly Faith: So let’s talk about, you know, let’s kind of start with Job because we have talked about Job a lot. Job is an enduring name. I mean, he lived several millennia ago, and he’s best known for all the trouble he went through. But he asked, twice in the same chapter, Job 28, where can wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? And, you know, think about Job. He wasn’t a big dummy. He wasn’t like some naive person. If you read the book of Job, you see he was inspired by knowledge that transcended science, at least as far as we know, science at that time. For example, he described the Earth’s interior as fire, you know?

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: He said that God hangs the Earth on nothing. I mean, these are things that were not even observable to him.

John McLarty:  Right. That of a free floating planet.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And then if you kind of fast forward to the time of Jesus, Pilate, I mean, Jesus is on trial, and he, you know, Pilate asks Jesus what is truth, not even realizing that truth was standing right in front of him.

John McLarty: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: And I think this is a fair question. I mean, every news story, every bit of information we receive, how are we supposed to know if it’s true or not? And, you know, so we’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about what is truth and how do you know if you have it. Because there’s nothing more dangerous than having an imitation of truth.

John McLarty: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: You know?

John McLarty: Yeah. And truth is, you know, there’s kind of a little bit of a side issue. But just in today’s age with Internet news and clickable links, we’re talking about the truth of ages, wisdom and the truth of ages. But if you just try to find the truth of a headline, you can’t find it. It’s all slanted or what’s called clickbait. So even just the truth of what is happening in the world, what’s the news today is impossible to find almost, but much less the truth of 

Kimberly Faith: What makes life yeah, for life decisions. 

John McLarty: Life decisions.

Kimberly Faith: I think it’s interesting you bring that up because, we’re going to, here in a minute, we’re going to talk about, you know, knowledge and wisdom aren’t the same thing. But, you know, we are constantly having to sift through all this knowledge.

John McLarty: We’re in the information age.

Kimberly Faith: We’re in information overload. 

John McLarty: Overload.

Kimberly Faith: A disinformation. A misinformation. And the craziness of just all the headlines that are supposed to, you know, that scare you, all these things, knowing the truth that is God’s truth takes those headlines and all the disinformation and allows us to have peace amidst the storm. So I appreciate you bringing up the fact that, you know, we have all this information.

John McLarty: I find comfort in that. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: Because you can’t find the truth of world news

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty:  But you can find the truth of Jesus Christ and the gospel and the peace we have. So that’s kind of what we’re exploring is that bigger, more profound truth.

Kimberly Faith: And you think about it

John McLarty: Yeah. Truth can be elusive.

Kimberly Faith: There’s always this educational theme that knowledge and education brings prosperity and peace and all these things. Well, we don’t see that. I mean, you see more fracturing families today. You see an epidemic of anxiety, purposelessness. Our world isn’t getting smarter, wiser, however you want to put this. We may be more informed, more technologically capable, but it’s not producing lives of integrity, peace

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: Purpose. Meaning that lasts beyond our own life. It’s still really elusive. So that’s why I thought, when I was praying and asking the Lord, okay, this is a second anniversary. This is kind of a big deal. This podcast is called Truth in Love.

John McLarty: Let’s look at where truth comes from. What is truth?

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. So let’s just kind of back up a minute and talk about the difference between wisdom and knowledge. I know, when you used to explain that in a, when we were in, I think, youth group, And you had a real good way of explaining that, real simple way. Knowledge is facts and wisdom is what you do with it. 

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: Did I say that right?

John McLarty: Pretty close. Yeah. 

Kimberly Faith: Well, tell me, extrapolate.

John McLarty: Well, yeah, knowledge is just facts. But wisdom is actually kind of, it’s kind of twofold. It’s knowing the truth, what is the truth. And as we’re going to look here, might be a leap ahead. But truth comes from God’s perspective. And then wisdom is then knowing how to apply it.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: I think there’s kind of that double you know, if you have wisdom, there’s kind of an implication you just don’t sit in a room somewhere like, oh, I’m now all wise.

Kimberly Faith: Right. It’s putting it to work. Yeah.

John McLarty: You put it to work.

Kimberly Faith: Well, and you know, people can be brilliant and have even the right truth, the right facts about something and make horribly devastating decisions.

John McLarty: Yeah. That’s a great point. I mean, it’s a terrible thing.

Kimberly Faith: Well, I mean, I was thinking about like, for example, Bernie Madoff who he was so respected, intelligent, brilliant. He chaired Nasdaq. And, I mean, billionaires trusted him for decades with their money. And yet, he ran the Ponzi scheme and bilked people out of millions. That is an intelligent man doing very unwise things. And then, I think about Solomon. Solomon was given divine knowledge and wisdom. But what did he do with it?

John McLarty: Well, he didn’t act upon it. That’s why I think, wisdom in the scripture especially is I mean, it’s knowledge but based on God’s perspective. And that’s kind of very interesting because you think of a scientist that studied evolution for all their life and they know the whole evolutionary story. Yet a 10 year old can read the Bible. In the beginning, God created heaven and earth and know that God created the heaven and the earth and know it for sure and we can too. And really has more wisdom than that scientist that studied evolutionary science for thirty years. And can quote volume upon volume upon volume.

Kimberly Faith: And managed to overlook all the gaps that don’t make sense because he was looking for an intended result. And I think, you know, I just, I guess by using these examples like Bernie Madoff and then Solomon, I wanted for me, this was pivotal because it was like even God’s knowledge, God’s truth from his word can be squandered.

John McLarty: Yes. If it’s not put into application.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. If it’s not put into God’s application. Right.  And so, what is truth? That’s kind of our first part of this podcast. And just to make this clear, truth is not synonymous with information in general.

John McLarty: No.

Kimberly Faith: Right?  And Job really

John McLarty: Truth is kind of like being correct.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty: It’s the correct knowledge.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right.

John McLarty: And that comes from God.

Kimberly Faith: Comes from God. Job kind of sifts through these sources of wisdom in Job Chapter 28. And he goes through all of them. All these popular commodities like gold, silver, onyx, crystal coral, rubies, topaz. And he says, not one of them comes close to the value of God’s truth or his wisdom. He says it doesn’t come from the ocean, it doesn’t come from the land of the living. He even said it doesn’t come from death or destruction. And, you know, one of the verses in, you want to read that verse, Job 28:14-15?

John McLarty: Sure. It says, quoting from Job, The deep says, it’s not in me, and the sea says, it’s not with me. It cannot be purchased for gold nor can silver be weighed for its price. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: I think that’s important because I think that we unwittingly think that the more that we have of this world’s treasures, the more we will be able to have the wisdom of the ages or the answers to all of life’s questions, the answer to the longing in our soul, all that will satisfy us and keep us in a sense of peace and purpose. And I think it’s interesting that Job actually went and labeled all these things that are no different than today. That where we look, we look for it in science. We look for it in wealth. We look for it in people, in intellectual discussions, in philosophy. But he’s saying none of it’s there.

John McLarty: I think you used the example of Solomon, I think of Ecclesiastes where he had wisdom. We know he had wisdom because God said he had wisdom, but he didn’t apply it. And then he searched all these, wealth and fountains and jewels and he said it’s all 

Kimberly Faith: And women. And he said vanity of vanities and all is vanity. I mean, that was one of the, I don’t know where that’s found in Ecclesiastes, it’s what he said.

John McLarty: I think he says it a lot. All is vanity.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And so Job

John McLarty: So it’s not in lifestyle, but it’s not in the deep and it’s not in riches and crystal and diamonds.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. 

John McLarty: Gold and silver.

Kimberly Faith: And so we, you know, we look at Job 28:23 and he concludes, God understands his way and he knows his place, talking about wisdom.

John McLarty: It comes from God.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. You mentioned, you know, an evolutionist who might study his whole life and every scientific nook and cranny in order to validate his own view of truth, which is really what’s going on, right? The invention by Darwin of evolution was to find a way to avoid acknowledging that there’s any supernatural force that could have created the world, right?

I mean, it’s a way to hide from the truth. And so what do we do? We create our own truth and then it doesn’t satisfy us. That’s why I think this is such an important discussion because we, I’m not going to beat up Darwin. Okay? Because we do it too. As born again believers, we can create our own, you know, form of truth and deviate from the scripture. I mean, let’s just take something as simple as the Bible says pray without ceasing, right? The Bible, that’s a command. That’s not like, oh, if you feel like it, pray without ceasing. And I can justify not doing that by any means. I don’t have time. I’m ministering to someone. I need more sleep, whatever.

John McLarty: Yeah. We rationalize away

Kimberly Faith: The truth. 

John McLarty: Simple truth.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Yeah. So I don’t want to, I’m not beating up anyone, this is for me. So we have to understand that truth cannot be manufactured or mined. It’s not going to be something that, it’s gotta come from something outside of our own mind in order to be, I mean, valid really because our mind, we change. We’re not, we’re fallible. We’re very fallible.

John McLarty: And to just chase a little rabbit, truth comes from the mind of God.

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: And that’s why a 10 year old can understand that God created heaven and earth. But it’s interesting through knowledge, you know, there’s knowledge. And I don’t want to get deep into this, but just for our listeners that we’re not dismissing the importance of knowledge. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. Education. 

John McLarty: Because I have friends that believe in evolution. I’ve studied things. It’s like, I’ll just, the eye.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And even Darwin said, you know, back in Darwin’s day, he said, do you know what’s going to be a big problem for us, evolutionists?

Kimberly Faith: No. 

John McLarty: He said, The eye.

Kimberly Faith: Oh.

John McLarty: How did the eye develop? And it’s so complex and it all has to work together. So, you know, that’s very valid. So I’ve, you know, and our pastor, Brian Disney, had eye challenges. Just some eye conditions. So he’s studied the eye. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: And just the cones and the rods and the imagery that they can focus. Like, how would evolution, so knowledge can back, you know, correct knowledge kind of backs up God’s truths.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So just for our listeners. We’re not dismissing, oh, you know, always

Kimberly Faith: Secular knowledge. Yeah.

John McLarty: Yeah. We don’t say that has no importance.

Kimberly Faith: Right. I appreciate you bringing that up.

John McLarty: Really science backs up God’s truths. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Well

John McLarty:  And I’ll just lay claim to that.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And I mean, even a non scientist can understand that. I mean, in our basic bible concept study, we talk about how the natural laws represent or show us the spiritual laws. And how you can’t violate gravity, you can’t. But there are consequences when you do.

And those reveal the spiritual laws. So thanks for chasing that rabbit.

John McLarty: The basic truth though comes from God. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And then you just look at creation and designer and intelligent designs. You almost have to study your whole life to explain that away.

Kimberly Faith: That’s a valid point, dad. You know, I said this before on this podcast, but one of the things I always use, because people, almost everybody has a cell phone. And when there’s a question about this, I’ll just pull my cell phone out and say, look, I’m going to take this cell phone apart, and I’m going to put it in a jar, all the components. You tell me how long you’re going to just sit there and shake that jar before it becomes a cell phone again. And I just ask, how long do you think it’ll take? And people are like, well, it’ll never happen. Okay. Is the cell phone more complex than the Earth? I mean, the universe I mean, that’s just a no brainer, right?

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: So that’s just breaking it down my, you know, Kim style because Kim likes things simple. But so we kind of look to, okay. What we’re talking about the difference between wisdom and knowledge. And now we’ve come to God’s answer to Job directly in Job 28:28. And I’d like, do you want to read that?

John McLarty: And to man he said, behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom. And to depart from evil is understanding.

Kimberly Faith: What do you think most people think of when they say the fear of the Lord?

John McLarty: Well, this goes back to our discussion. Most people have the wrong impression of God the Father and that he’s a fearful father and kind of a taskmaster. And this idea of the fear of the Lord, they think of trembling. And the fear of the Lord is, now it can involve that.

Kimberly Faith:  Well, there is a reason to be afraid if you’re not born again.

John McLarty: Right, if you’re not born again.

Kimberly Faith: For sure. 

John McLarty: But usually, you know, the word here is kind of this awesome respect or this acknowledgment that God is God.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: And it’s just, you know, when Isaiah saw the throne, he falls on his face and says, oh, woe is me. I’m a man of unclean lips.

Kimberly Faith: Right, I remember that scripture.

John McLarty: And just like, Oh my goodness, God is so holy. And that’s this fear of God. And God so much, fear not, peace, I’m with you 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: And his loving kindness.

Kimberly Faith: I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, I think there’s two ways that people interpret this scripture when it talks about the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, which I think is also repeated in Proverbs.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: I think they look at that as this judgment, damnation, that’s what fearing the Lord means. Or they just dismiss it as, Old Testament, irrelevant. You know? We don’t think that way anymore. And so thus, if you take the fear of the Lord out of how to find wisdom, you’re left with man made wisdom.

John McLarty: Right. Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: And so, you know, I really love the way that CS Lewis captures the fear of the Lord in his, in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. 

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: When the Pevincey children first hear about Aslan, they ask whether he’s safe. And mister Beaver says, of course, he isn’t safe. He’s a lion. You know, like and mister Beaver’s pretty funny. Great movie if you haven’t watched it. And, but then he says he’s but he’s good. He’s the king.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And then missus Beaver says, anyone who could walk into Aslan’s presence without their knees knocking together was either braver than anyone has a right to be or else hadn’t understood who they were about to meet at all.

John McLarty: Perfect.

Kimberly Faith: And that’s the fear of the Lord, you know? What you said earlier, it’s capturing the fact that he is awesome. He is worthy of our complete obedience. But he also longs to be near us. Look what he did for us, you know? And so to say that, you know, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, let’s not domesticate God. You know?

John McLarty: Yeah. And what, how fortunate for us? All powerful. 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: All wise. 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: All knowing, but loving.

Kimberly Faith: And can be trusted.

John McLarty: Yes. And His loving kindness.

Kimberly Faith: Remember last I think it was the last podcast we did, I think it was two, where we talked about the father that, you know, runs towards us. He longs for our presence. He wants us to be in, he wants us to call him Abba. So there’s this awesome respect, but there’s also this amazing love, and that’s all wrapped in together. So having said that, you know, the fear of the Lord being the beginning of wisdom is not more knowledge, not more intelligence.

It is a relationship.

John McLarty: Relationship and understanding this is the source of the truth.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. And so this relationship through Jesus Christ by grace through faith, right? We come to be saved by grace through faith. Then what happens is oh, wait.

We talked about probably the most popular podcast, one of the most popular podcasts and one of the most popular devotionals on our website is the difference between the great white throne judgment and the judgment seat of Christ. And I’m chasing a little rabbit here, dad. But when we’re born again, we’re not going to stand in the presence of the great white throne judgment. That’s only for people who were not born again. And they are going to be measured by their works. We’re going to stand in the judgment seat of Christ.

John McLarty: And none of them will be qualified.

Kimberly Faith: None of them will measure up.

John McLarty: Yes. By their works.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And we’re going to stand in the judgment seat of Christ covered by the blood of the lamb. And the only thing that’s going to be weighed is what we did for Jesus, what we did for God.

John McLarty: And not with our salvation at stake.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. We will be saved so as by fire, that is what the Bible says. But that can be very exciting. That should be very exciting. But it won’t be exciting if we haven’t learned how to live in the fear of the Lord.

John McLarty: Yeah. If we’ve, and we all do to some degree. But if you say you’ve just totally squandered your life. You just walked away from the Lord, never came back, you’re saved. But just the disappointment that 

Kimberly Faith: We will be disappointed.

John McLarty: Yeah. And the disappointment in ourselves when we realized

Kimberly Faith: We squandered it.

John McLarty: Wow. We had this opportunity to be a blessing to others to have such a fruitful life and we just shredded it.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. In case you’re wondering, that snoring in the background is Roxie, dad and mom’s little dog, who’s decided to come record with us today and is snoring in the background in her little snore. We’re not going to wake her up though. She might start barking. But here’s what I want to continue to emphasize because this is a challenge for me, was a challenge for me and is an absolute turning point when we understand this and begin to think differently about God the Father. When we need to learn to hold our father in breathless wonder, in awe. Like a child who’s just figured out that their parent, their father is the president of The United States, you know?

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: I mean, just this, you know, can you imagine being Patrick Mahome’s, you know, two year old? And you’re just kind of watching and thinking everything is just normal. And then one day, you wake up and you go, my father is one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the NFL.

John McLarty: Yeah. Your mind is old enough to understand that, oh, this is a big deal.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And so that’s, you know, when we as babies, as born again Christians, we’re brand new babies, we don’t have a real understanding of that. But if we don’t eventually develop that, then we are not walking into the wisdom that we are granted by our birthright.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And, you know, we, you know, when we, I’ll just tell you, the closer that I get to God, the more, things that bring me to tears that never affected me before. Like, just the blessing of having a good night’s rest, you know? Or the blessing of waking up and not being sick. You know, that is, being able to breathe, not cough. The blessing of just watching the sunset or just enjoying, I love to hear the birds sing in the morning. You know, I didn’t really appreciate that as much when I wasn’t walking close to the Lord. And when, I’m not saying this is certainly not, this is very much up and down. It’s not static. I mean, I wish I could say that my walk with the Lord is always every day just more beautiful than the last, but it’s not. Unfortunately, we have ups and downs in our walk with God.

John McLarty: But it’s easy to take those things for granted.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. Yes.

John McLarty: But yeah, God emphasizes all over the place how good he is, his loving kindness.

Kimberly Faith: He does. And so that, you know, we’re talking about what is the truth. What is the truth and how do you know if you have it? This is kind of where the pivot is here. Psalms 111:10 says, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. A good understanding have all those who do his commandments. See, we don’t get wisdom or we don’t find truth by reading more books, by your circumstances, by even knowing yourself better. It’s in loving obedience, conforming our will, making him the center of everything we do, every compartment of our life. That’s how we get in a position to have God’s perspective. And then we will say some things that blow our own minds because it’s not us. It’s God, you know?

John McLarty: Yeah. And I think that’s interesting just to read that again. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. A good understanding have all those who do his commandments. 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And kind of like I mentioned earlier, wisdom especially when you read through Proverbs, is this understanding of God’s truths, but then put into application. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. 

John McLarty: And so it says, a good understanding have all those who do his commandments.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: And there, I think of, this just jumped into my head. I don’t know what Proverbs it is, but it says, a wise woman buildeth her house. So it’s not just a wise woman who just sits in meditation.

Kimberly Faith: On God’s word.

John McLarty: Just, yeah, I’m just, you know, so wise. A wise woman buildeth her house.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right.

John McLarty: So it’s doing something with that wisdom.

Kimberly Faith: I love that.

John McLarty: So wisdom has kind of almost an action implied with it. And it’s kind of an obedience. Like, oh, because I have wisdom

Kimberly Faith: I’m going to use it.

John McLarty: I’m going to use it. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And, you know, just coming back to this point for just a minute, we cannot know what is true about life, our circumstances, or our self apart from knowing who God is.

John McLarty: True. Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: And the fear of the Lord, now there’s living in awe and respect of him, his word, his spirit, puts us in a position to see things as God sees them. Because we see him for who he is and therefore, all the problems, all the circumstances are put in perspective next to him as measured against him, you know. And it’s kind of like instead of seeing the mountain as we have a problem, we see a molehill because God is so big he fills the room. And I think when we put God in where he belongs, on the throne, then everything else gets measured against him. And this goes to your point earlier about the, how do you know what news is even right. You know, one of the things that I kind of, it’s very interesting. We talked about this before, but it’s called walking the path of peace, right? When you’re close to God, you walk the path of peace. Well, you know, I think we should be well informed about what’s going on in the world. But if I ask the Lord, I want to know, you know, what’s going on in The Middle East. And I start surfing sources, right? It’s so interesting how God’s peace waxes and wanes in me based on the garbage or the truth that I’m reading. And it’s, I mean, you may call that weird, but it’s just true. It happens. I can tell when I just get into somebody’s blathering opinion, and I’m not even talking about left or right. I’m just talking about, it’s on both sides of that aisle, right? As opposed to here’s what happened.

John McLarty: No. We have the holy spirit that can either kind of grieve our spirit or give us confirmation even about world events.

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: If we’re, you know, if we’re seeking it.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: Yeah. So that’s interesting. Yeah. I don’t know if I’ve exactly experienced that, but I just know I get weary sometimes.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty: Of, like, you know, just searching for the, what’s the latest in, I don’t know, some world event.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And you just, you hear so many diametrically different opinions.

Kimberly Faith: Opinions is what they are.

John McLarty: This isn’t the news. This is people’s opinions.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And the way it manifests itself in my life, and this going back to God’s presence and the importance of understanding and experiencing God’s presence, which is going to give us wisdom, right? When I feel my peace disappearing, I know it’s time to stop looking there, you know? It’s like, oh, well and maybe I’m not supposed to know everything. That’s okay too because I know the most important thing that I need to know and that is God, you know? It’s like, okay. I’m maybe not going to find the truth on CNN or Fox News, either one, but maybe it’s not important for me to know that right that minute. And I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to search for the truth and know what’s going on. Again, I’m just saying that the timing of that, when you’re in the presence of God, He gives us that path of peace.

John McLarty: It’s like a measuring stick.

Kimberly Faith: It is. Yeah. 100%. And so this is where

John McLarty: I kind of experience that as of, whether it’s digging too deep or just spending too much time, you know, what they call it, surfing or deep diving, internet. It’s just this grief, you know, that the Lord you know, whether it’s

Kimberly Faith: Wasting the time.

John McLarty: Yeah. Wasting time. There’s this grief that it’s almost like I think you’ve experienced this too. It’s almost going to be a physical

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty: Like, oh my, this is not feeling right. I need to stop, you know?

Kimberly Faith: We have a sense. 

John McLarty: Yeah. A sense. 

Kimberly Faith: This is kind of where this to me is the crux of this whole idea of, you know, how do you know if you have the truth? And God’s presence is our most priceless possession.

John McLarty: That’s a good point because then God says, peace I give unto you. Not as the world gives unto you, but my peace.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. That’s right.

John McLarty: Peace is a lack of anxiety.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Exactly. 

John McLarty: It’s feeling peace. 

Kimberly Faith: Exactly. Psalm 16:11 says, In your presence is fullness of joy. At your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Peace flows from intimacy with God.

John McLarty: And just for our listeners, if you’re feeling anxiety, that’s not peace.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.  One is you can’t have both.

John McLarty: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: You can’t have both. Same thing with joy. You know, joy is described in the Bible

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: As satisfaction with your life. You know, I could build this most beautiful landscaping in my yard and not feel joy about it. Maybe a brief happiness. But if I, like, get to lead a soul to the Lord, that joy doesn’t fade.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: That’s like, it kind of, I wake up smiling thinking about it. You know, those are the things that, and why is that? It’s because intimacy with God produces rejoicing in the things he rejoices about. 

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: And he rejoices when a soul comes to know him, you know? And so I want to, and I don’t want to make it sound like we’re saying you have to have a perfect life to be in God’s presence. He understands that we are, he understands Romans Chapter Seven. You know, he inspired it.

John McLarty: Yeah. And that’s that conflict that when I do good, evil is present with me. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes. I want to do good and I do the wrong thing and I want to pray without ceasing, but I don’t pray at all. And I didn’t pray once today.

John McLarty: I’m glad you brought that up because you and I, neither one are saying we just live this life of perfect peace all the time. No, that’s the whole point. But when anxiety comes in, we recognize that as an indication. That’s a warning. Oh, stop. Warning. Let’s get back to this path of peace.

Kimberly Faith: Well, and the remarkable thing is that every born again believer, every person who has trusted Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, has this peace and God’s wisdom and the truth available to us. But we have to get in the habit of pursuing God as our first response, not our last resort. You know, James 1:5, we talk about this a lot. Why don’t you read James 1:5?

John McLarty: If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

Kimberly Faith: Do we really believe that?

John McLarty: That’s, I do. So that’s so incredible. If any of you lacks wisdom, that’s what we’re talking about.

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: Wisdom from God. Let him ask of God. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes. 

John McLarty: God doesn’t want us to have to study for twenty years some set of books to have wisdom. If you lack wisdom let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally and without reproach. And it will be given to him.

Kimberly Faith: Right. It’s a promise.

John McLarty: I believe that. I think my self confession is that I don’t do that quick enough.

Kimberly Faith: Well, right.  None of us do.

John McLarty: Yeah. It’s like, oh, am I doing this as my last resort instead of my first?

Kimberly Faith: And I think to my question earlier, do we really believe that? What we believe manifests in what we do. And I think that

John McLarty: Do we practice it?

Kimberly Faith: Do we practice it? Yeah. But I want to. You know, I want to have God’s wisdom. And what’s so cool is that when I’m actually obeying God by making him, putting him on the throne of my day where I plan to play pickleball or putting him on the throne of my day where I plan to, you know, work in my yard or catch up on the legal field or, you know, in my law practice or even catch up on writing devotionals or something that’s even manifestly God’s work.

When I put him on the throne, he’s almost always rearranging things and it’s always better. Always.

John McLarty: Yes. He does our life better than we would.

Kimberly Faith: That is perfect. Absolutely. And so going back to this idea of what, you know, what is truth? Well, Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father but by me. And that’s John 14:6. Well, the truth is a person.

John McLarty: I am the way, the truth, and the life.

Kimberly Faith:  Yeah. This is, we didn’t give you the bluff.

John McLarty: Not just a way to the truth. Even though it, through Jesus is the way to the truth, but he is the truth.

Kimberly Faith: He is the truth. And we talked about

John McLarty: The living water.

Kimberly Faith: We talked about this in an earlier podcast that this unbelievable  thought that Jesus is the word and he is the truth. So we have the written truth that is his word. That’s not just meant to be intellectualized. It’s meant to be followed. And then we have the presence of Jesus through salvation, the presence of the spirit who is the truth. So you combine those and the truth is found in Christ and living in a relationship with him. You know, when you read James 1:5, God doesn’t give liberally and without reproach to wisdom to people who are slapping God in the face with sin.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: I mean, that’s just, I mean, that’s putting it pretty bluntly.  But I’m there. I understand that. I mean, when I’m desperate for, and asking God, hey, what is the solution here? I need a solution here. But I have, you know, slapped him in the face with some disobedience earlier that morning. I need to confess that and come back into the throne room, you know? Don’t treat him like he’s a serf. He’s the king, you know?

John McLarty: And that’s such a good point. That’s not, you know, self righteousness.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: That’s just, you know, loving Christ, wanting to please Him. But yeah, if we’re just obstinately thumbing our nose at Christ and He’s asking us to be loving toward others and we’re being selfish. And then we come into a dilemma and say, Oh, by the way, I need a little wisdom here, Lord. Get out of this jam. Yeah, it doesn’t work that way.

Kimberly Faith: It doesn’t work that way because you know, I go back to the illustration of not following what you learned in boot camp and expecting to be sent on a spec ops mission. You’re not, it’s not going to happen. And, you know, it’s Proverbs 9:10. This was the verse I was thinking of earlier. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The knowledge of the holy one is understanding. I know we’ve

John McLarty: Perfect. 

Kimberly Faith: We’ve talked about this, but, you know, the beginning of wisdom comes in living a life that puts God on the throne. On the throne in our personal relationships, on the throne in our work, on the throne in our possessions, on the throne of our bank account, on the throne of our time. He needs to be on the throne in every area of our life, then we get his wisdom.

John McLarty: We have his wisdom. We know the truth. And through him, we can follow it. I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

Kimberly Faith: 100%. And you know, I think I was asking the Lord about this because I like real graphic examples and big pictures. I like to color with crayons. And I was asking the Lord, what is the best proof that I can say I am living in the fear of the Lord and your wisdom? And, you know, one of the best proofs is that my life represents and pours out the fruit of the spirit.

John McLarty: Sure. Yeah. That, let’s just look at, you know, Galatians 5:22 and 23. So just think about somebody that you see this emanating from. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. What a great measuring stick

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: You know, for ourselves.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: You know, not that we’re to judge others. But yeah, if you have love, joy, peace, I mean, there they are right there, love, joy, and peace. Wow.

Kimberly Faith: They’re the fruit of the spirit, not the fruit of Kim. And just like peace comes Jesus says, I give you my peace, not as the world gives, but, you know, as I give. It’s a totally different kind of peace. It’s not peace by going out on the back deck and meditating and, you know, humming to yourself. It’s peace that comes from God. And all these fruits come from God when we are fearing him in a way that we’re making him the center of our life. We can’t manufacture this fruit on our own. It has to come from having God’s central and throne of our whole life. And, you know, God’s presence is when it says the fear of the Lord is beginning wisdom, it’s the beginning of so many things. The presence of God is the fountain of this unbelievable, inexhaustible, joy producing, peace sustaining, wisdom gathering presence that we can tap into because we are in Christ.

John McLarty: And just, that’s the abundant life.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. That’s right.

John McLarty: And God wants us to have life and life more abundantly.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. Yes.

John McLarty: And when you think abundance though, you know, again, totally, you know, dismissing this nonsense of the prosperity gospel. You know, the abundant life is not houses and riches. This is the abundant life.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Love, joy, the fruit of the spirit

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: Emanating from our life.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. Truth is not a what as much as it is who. And we, in order to live in wisdom, must be connected to Jesus. And when we do that in every aspect of our life, when we connect, make him, put him on the throne. If I put Jesus on the throne of my church life, but then at work, I manifest the works of the flesh instead of the fruit of the spirit, I’m not going to have wisdom.

Not going to have peace. I’m not going to have joy because he has to be Lord of all. He can’t just be Lord. If he’s not Lord of all, he’s Lord of none. I mean, in our life, really. And it’s so important to understand, for me to understand, and I’m learning this. Truth is found in Jesus. And we know we have it when our life produces the fruit of the spirit, when the wisdom, the things that we say are so clearly not us. Actually, when the things that we say are really representing God’s word. You know, going back to the conversation we talked about in an earlier podcast when the young guy was asking, well, you know, he was saying, well, I can be saved after I’m dead. And I was like, well, the Bible says it is appointed under man once to die and then the judgment. That wasn’t my words. That was the holy spirit who had, you know, hidden that word in my heart

John McLarty: The word of God.

Kimberly Faith: Giving him wisdom. And the only reason he was listening to me is because he thought I cared. There’s that fruit of the spirit. And he even said after he got saved, he said, I did not expect to come to a lawyer’s office and get saved. And I’m like, well, praise God, you know?

John McLarty: Well, and that was exciting that, you know, just you recently got to lead a young man to know the truth.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: You know, Jesus is the savior.

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: And I’m just thinking about, you know, we talked earlier about Jesus is the word and the word was, is an expression, God’s love. And Jesus is an expression of God’s love to us, and Jesus is God. And then Jesus expressed his love to us at the cross, sacrificially giving his life for us. And then I’m looking at these fruits of the spirit. You know, we should have, as born again souls, we have the mind of Christ. We have the nature of Christ in us. But this is how we express it. How does someone know that we love him? How did that young man know you loved him? What if you just sat there and thought, well, I love this guy. I love him. I’m feeling love towards him.

Kimberly Faith: I love you.

John McLarty: But you never expressed

Kimberly Faith: You know?

John McLarty: The gospel to him.

Kimberly Faith: Well, even if I said, well, I love you, that wouldn’t even mean anything to him. Because it wouldn’t be true. There’s no value in that. I don’t even know him. He knows that.

It’s what, you know, when somebody says to me, man, I just, I feel like you really care about me. And I’m like, I can always say, that’s just another opportunity to glorify God. No. I don’t love you. That is Jesus that you see. You know, always pointing it back. And look, I fail day after day after day in this. But to me, this is very exciting because we live in a world, like we talked about earlier, of people who claim to be purveyors of truth, but there’s a test. What we’ve learned today is there’s a test. The truth will produce fruit. And that is the fruit of God’s spirit. And that’s how you know if it’s real. You know, the truth will produce wisdom that’s so, that comes from God’s word. Because Jesus is the truth and he is the word. The truth will produce peace. So you want to know what truth is and whether you have it or not? Look at the fruit.

John McLarty: Measure your peace.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. Measure your peace, your love, your joy, and the divine wisdom. You know, going back to Solomon, Solomon was given this gift. He was given the gift he asked for, wisdom. But it wasn’t being used, the fruit of the spirit. And what’s interesting is he wrote books of the Bible, right? Parts of the Bible. Because God’s spirit had given him that gift. But his life was a disaster. I mean, his kingdom was divided. It was just so sad. What a waste. I don’t know about you, dad, but it blows my mind to think that God has written every day of my life for me. I don’t  want to miss any of it, do you?

John McLarty: No. And it’s kind of, and he doesn’t make it unachievable. 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: We just draw near to him.

Kimberly Faith:  Right.

John McLarty: And that’s the source of wisdom. And then the fruits there. And I think you said something really good though. You just can’t ignore the basics.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Like in boot camp. You just can’t ignore the basics and expect to go to the next level. But in him, that’s where wisdom is. He is the truth, the way, the truth, the life. But he’s in us and then we draw nigh unto him and he expresses his love and peace through our lives.

Kimberly Faith: Well, truth is found by drawing near to Jesus who is the truth and he will give us wisdom freely. I promise you, and again, I’m not saying I’ve arrived, but I’ve experienced it enough to want to make it my addiction. And that is living in joy, living in peace, seeing how the influence of the spirit and what that produces in me to enjoy affects those around me. It is the light that Jesus gives us is not in our intellect as much as it is in producing an environment that represents Jesus.

John McLarty: Amen. And that’s the purpose of this podcast. 

Kimberly Faith:That’s right. 

John McLarty: Truth in love.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. That’s exactly right, dad. I so much appreciate you bringing that back because full circle, we couldn’t just call this a truth base. We wanted to call it Truth in Love.

John McLarty: Amen.

Kimberly Faith: Because you need both. You need both.

John McLarty: Man, Kim, two years.

Kimberly Faith: What a great way to wrap up two years.

 You have been listening to the Truth in Love podcast with your host Kimberly Faith and my dad, John Mac. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us at gofaithstrong.com.