Episode 71: God’s Response To Suffering

Jacob Paul: Welcome to the truth and love podcast with your hosts Kimberly Faith and John Mack. The truth and love podcast seeks to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.

Kimberly Faith: Well, dad, today’s topic is really, appropriate.

John McLarty: And How so, Kim?

Kimberly Faith: Well, we, you know, we have seen I don’t know. It just seems like the last two or three months or so, even the last couple of years really, we just seem to see a lot more suffering at our doorstep and in our house, in our own house, and in our own circle that is, making making it more and more important in my mind for us to understand God’s response to suffering.

John McLarty: And worldwide. Yes. Just things going on across the world and across The United States.

Kimberly Faith: Well, I’m I’m reminded

John McLarty: Ideas to to ponder and look into the scripture about.

Kimberly Faith: Well, and if we if we really want, we’ve talked about God’s perspective versus, for example, the perspective of maybe somebody who doesn’t believe in God or had an atheistic perception perspective, for example, pain and suffering has zero purpose when yourself is your God. You know?

John McLarty: It’s just trouble.

Kimberly Faith: It’s just trouble. It’s a waste of time. And, you know, I and I’m not that that god didn’t create the world, with a purpose for that we would suffer, but I think we chose sin. Humanity chose sin, which interjected suffering into the world because sin is the cause of every horrible thing.

John McLarty: Well, and people even maybe lean towards atheistic, but when things go really terrible, they double down on blaming it on God, or if there was a God, this couldn’t be happening. So, it’s a real challenging idea. It’s very relevant to nonbelievers and believers.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right, because I think believers do it too.

John McLarty: They do.

Kimberly Faith: I think that we’re we’re gonna actually talk about this in another podcast, but we have talked about it some in in some some past podcasts. But this idea that we if we don’t, as born again believers, keep God on the throne of our heart, then that thing that has taken his place, when we lose it or when it is damaged in some way let’s say we have, you know, some like a loss of our health or a loss of our career. If that crushes us to the extent that that we are not able to fulfill our purpose of glorifying god, then I think we need to be redirected, and that’s what we wanna do in this podcast. We wanna give what does the bible say about God’s response to suffering. And and I just wanna prep preface this podcast by saying this is not an exhaustive study.

Okay? This is some highlights that God has shown me through just a recent circumstance, You know, I have a real a young friend of mine who’s a who’s a pastor. Him and his wife are just the most amazing Christians. We met through a project we did together in Nicaragua back when he was full time in the construction industry. He actually built one of my the law office that has the fostering by faith.

Yeah.

Jacob Paul: Told us about him.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. And the orphanage

John McLarty: in Nicaragua?

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Yeah. In the Mosquito Indian tribe. He was just struck down, I mean, and we thought he was going to die and just came out of nowhere. And, so he’s actually we’re actually walking through that journey with him and his family, and the lord is already giving him ministry opportunities and, through that.

But I had actually, god had been speaking to me about this subject before this, and it was so interesting because, you know, sometimes I feel like when something happens, some pain and suffering happens that’s really close to us, if we’re paying attention to God, he prepares us for it. Mhmm. You know? And I think about that verse in first Peter four twelve that says, beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing has happened to you. But rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when his glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.

John McLarty: And that’s as a response that we can have toward a fiery trial.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Peter is saying, look, don’t be surprised. I mean, bad things happen every day to both believers and nonbelievers. And rather, you should be anticipating it from the standpoint not because you’re looking forward to it, but because it’s an opportunity to glorify God.

John McLarty: Well, this is interesting, and it might be chasing a little bit of a rabbit, but I think it applies. It’s a phrase that you’ve coined, and it’s, Dad, mom, life is full of trouble. And I think back in my life, and it goes to our perspective of God, but it also can go to whether we’re living kind of for God. I’m just going to give an example. At one point in my life, well, I would say at a lot of points in my life, I’ve not yielded to God.

I’m just thinking of one particular incident where a missionary was coming through and talking to the churches, and the Lord kind of put it on my heart to give, I don’t know if it was a 100 or $200, but then I sat there and thought about it and thought about my finances. Well, I just put $20 like in the missionary plate. And about two or three days later, my suburban broke down in the worst possible place, like in a school zone. Oh, no. And just people were honking, and I was having to kind of direct traffic and call in a wrecker to come haul the car off.

Well, the fuel pump had gone out. And the price of that fuel pump and the repair was the exact cost that the Lord had shown me to give to the missionaries. My example being, I immediately and I tend to even kinda overemphasize because, you know, my perspective of God was like, this was God. And it was God showing me a lesson. But then there’s times when you’re just living for the Lord and just some trouble a breakdown just like that could happen. And it’s really not anything so it could be the Lord chasing in you

like he did me. Because I was like, okay, I immediately got it. Like the Lord said, John, you could have given the money to the missionary, or we can give it to a mechanic, your choice. But that could happen in another circumstance if I’d given to the missionary, and maybe two or three days that same thing happens. And I’m just going like, Well, maybe I’m supposed to have a ministry to the record company, or somebody’s gonna stop and help me.

So I’m looking for a ministry instead of immediately feeling, oh, this is a I knew it was a chastening of the Lord. Especially when that

Kimberly Faith: When it was exact same The bill

John McLarty: was exact same amount. But it’s just interesting how our perspective can change how we view trouble.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And the closer our perspective gets to God’s perspective, the more that we we take trouble in stride because we know it’s not us handling it. It’s him.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And it’s yeah. It’s so let’s you know what? The Bible is full of stories about how, you know, God took and did his greatest work in the storm. And and and in fact, works that would not have even happened had the trouble not come.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And I and I think of Joseph. Mhmm. I mean, that’s one of the first people I think about.

John McLarty: Thrown into a pit by his own brothers. Yeah. Sold into slavery.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Falsely accused by

Jacob Paul: Falsely accused by Potiphar’s wife.

John McLarty: Right. And imprisoned. Right. You know? And then when he was in prison, he did these good things and they the, you know, the the was it the baker?

Kimberly Faith: And he was supposed to tell Pharaoh about it.

John McLarty: Drained him.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Yeah. Didn’t even just forgot about

John McLarty: it. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And but who would have thought? I mean, in in in God was preparing Joseph for an amazing leadership position. But even beyond that, I mean, when Joseph was sitting there feeling like he was rotting in prison, he could not have known that thousands of years later, people like you and I would be reading his story

John McLarty: His story.

Kimberly Faith: Being inspired by it. You know? And in order to endure that kind of suffering with hope instead of feeling like it’s a waste or it’s God’s fault or God had abandoned because Joseph, you know, Joseph hadn’t really done anything that we can that we know about Right. That caused these things to happen. But his character reflected that because when he did get to the position of being the, know, the second in command in Egypt, he was full of God’s wisdom.

So he had developed he clearly developed his relationship with God through all those fiery trials. And on the other side, he had an experience that was as a result of being refined by that fire. And it’s very clear that that’s what happened.

John McLarty: And just to emphasize, this trial in prison, it wasn’t like it was a week or two. I’ve forgotten how long it was, but it was a long trial Yeah. Of his

Kimberly Faith: I know when you were talking about your car breakdown and how that could be either way. Could be chasing you or it could just be God positioning And you, had something happen recently involving my law office. I say my law office as hopefully it’s God’s law office, you just

John McLarty: kind of

Kimberly Faith: see term of use, but where I had to make a choice about whether to well, I basically have made a choice to set aside so much time a month to work on Go Faith Strong and not be in my law office. And the Lord had been putting that on my heart for quite a while, but, you know, that means loss of income. Mhmm. Right? If I’m not in the office, I’m not making money.

And I I was kinda wrestling with it, and the lord just said, whose law practice is this? And he keeps reminding me, and this is you know, I’m so slow, I’m a slow class that he has to constantly remind me, this is his law practice. If this is what he wants me to do, it may look like a hardship, but he’s going to take care of things. And that’s just such great assurance. And I think at

John McLarty: that time, because you talked about that with your parents, and you were open to, well, maybe the Lord’s just given me a completely different direction. And I think that’s so key, to be yielded to the Lord. Like, What do you want to show me in this trial? Maybe it’s a chastening like me and the missionary. Or maybe it’s just your car broke down, It was just time for the fuel pump to go out. And maybe time

Kimberly Faith: to minister the mechanic.

John McLarty: Yeah, it was time to minister. Like our refrigerator just broke down the day before a Bible study with 21 people here. But Lynn and I just felt at peace. No, we need to go on with the ministry. And here, just happened this morning.

The repair guy came and we had ministry to him.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Yeah. Nice guy. You know, I think about not just Joseph, but also Job. I think the story of Job is probably, you know, aside from the suffering of Jesus Christ, is is one of the most remarkable and tragic what could be known as a tragic story of suffering.

I don’t know anybody who has lost their entire family except for a wife. Their every bit of their possessions and their health all within the space of hours or days. And then had friends accuse him, you know, try to say, Well, God is chasing you. You must have sinned. Right?

Job the Bible says Job never cursed God.

John McLarty: Never cursed God.

Kimberly Faith: But this is kind of the heart of this podcast that I wanna talk about. And when Job lost everything, he was allowed to see something immeasurably greater.

John McLarty: Mhmm.

Kimberly Faith: And that is a clearer vision of God. And this was indicated in his words. Job said in Job 40 two:five, I have heard you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you. And, of course, he’s talking about the eyes of his soul there. He wasn’t talking about, you know, he God appeared in

John McLarty: his soul. He’s illuminated.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: God is illuminated in his soul.

Kimberly Faith: But he got there because God answered Job. And when he answered Job about all the things that had happened to him, he didn’t rehash his suffering. He didn’t explain all the reasons for his suffering.

John McLarty: He didn’t really give him a full explanation.

Kimberly Faith: He didn’t give him any explanation. He but he said and I’d just like to read Job thirty eight two through seven. You wanna read that? Sure.

John McLarty: Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge? So this is God responding. Now prepare yourself like a man. I will question you. Instead of Job questioning God, I will question you and you shall answer me.

Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding, when the morning stars sang together and all of the sons of God shouted for joy.

Kimberly Faith: So that’s a quote. And God spends two or three chapters, I think it’s Job 38 through 41, reminding Job, where were you when this happened? Answer me. Tell me what you know about what I’ve done. And the thing is, God wasn’t minimizing Job’s pain.

He was expanding God’s vision. He was reminding him of who

John McLarty: Expanding Job’s vision.

Kimberly Faith: Oh, Job’s vision. Sorry. Yeah. Was reminding God was reminding Job of who he is.

John McLarty: And that in a sense was the explanation. Like, I’m God. You’re questioning me. You have a question for me. I have a question for you.

Kimberly Faith: But he wasn’t saying, Job, your suffering doesn’t matter, but rather, I am God. You can trust me even when you don’t understand me. And that’s when Job responds in chapter 42 and says, I know you can do everything.

John McLarty: And that’s key. That’s a great statement.

Kimberly Faith: It is such a great I know you can do everything and that no purpose of yours can be withheld from you. And then he goes into his confession. I’ve said what I don’t understand, things too wonderful for me, which I didn’t know. Now I’ve heard you by the hearing of the ear. He said, I had heard you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you.

And then he says, I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes. You know, that’s God isn’t isn’t looking to grind our face into the dirt. What he all he’s saying is, look, you keep your eyes on me and know me for who I say I am, and you won’t have a reason to think your pain is wasted. Rather, your pain will become an opportunity.

John McLarty: And I just think of the study we did on the beatitudes, blessed are they that the poor in spirit. Job said, therefore I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes. Job just humbled himself before the Lord.

Kimberly Faith: And that also is the second beatitude where he where it says, blessed are they that mourn. We’re talking about mourning sin. Right? You know, Paul the apostle in Romans chapter seven talks about how when I would do good, evil is present with me. You know, we have the part of us that wants to doubt God, and it’s constantly just like I mean, Eve was in the perfection of the garden

John McLarty: Mhmm.

Kimberly Faith: And Satan was able to rip her away by saying, did God really say? You know? And so we have to acknowledge we have this enemy that is prowling around seeking to keep us from knowing God for who he says he is. And when we deviate from that, from knowing God for who he says he is, and having this intimacy with him, then we can be sure that our pain, our suffering will seem wasted.

John McLarty: I think something interesting here too is Job did not know he didn’t get that explanation of, Oh, all this is going to be restored. He didn’t get some answer.

Kimberly Faith: That’s a good point.

John McLarty: Is right in the middle of his suffering.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah, that’s a good point.

John McLarty: And he didn’t know everything would be restored. He didn’t know that his words would be written in a book, that here we are thousands of years later studying Job. He’s just like, Lord, it’s okay. You’re God.

Kimberly Faith: You’re God. Yeah. I hadn’t thought about that, dad. That’s a really good point because if we can come to a place in our life in the midst of our pain where the only promise that matters to us is that I will I will be with you. I will never leave you or forsake you.

I am your all in all. I am all you need and understand that promise from God to us is all we need, then God can take that and who knows what he’ll do with it. In Job’s case, he was restored to even more than he had before the great trial. And it just it just really goes back to we need to learn to know God for who he says he is, not who we make him.

John McLarty: Understanding, yeah, that he’s the God of the universe. He is all powerful, but he is loving. He’s righteous and he’s just. It goes back to that nature of God. And I think in my early Christian life, I think I almost had more of a fearful not fear and trembling, but just, you know, God’s kind of I’ll say this, I’ve grown in my understanding of God and his love and kindness rather than, Oh, I better walk kind of the straight and narrow not to keep our salvation, you know, so bad things don’t happen to me.

Yes. Almost superstitious. Yeah. But really

Kimberly Faith: It is. It really is because we we think in life in terms of karma. Yeah. Know? Right.

Instead of no. Our circumstances don’t define our reality. Right. God does.

John McLarty: But God’s a loving father, and he does Jason at times. But his overall he is a God

Kimberly Faith: of love and kindness. He is. And the Bible says that his loving kindness is from generation to generation, from everlasting to everlasting. And when it’s it’s kinda like when the more we know him for who he says he is, the less we’re controlled by our circumstances, including pain. And, you know, I had I’ve actually been putting this to the test of my own life, and it’s kind of a silly little thing probably for some people to think about, but when I have a circumstance that arises where I feel myself losing my peace, right?

It can be something as small as maybe somebody gives their two week notice, or maybe I don’t know how to handle a case. Right? And those are small things in the big picture. And I feel myself losing my peace. I just remind my I remind myself I have some self talk here and kind of in the form of prayer, like, Lord, remind me of who you are.

Mhmm. And remind me of your perspective so that I can put this in your perspective and give it to you and not take it back. Give it to God, don’t take it back. Right? And it’s so crazy, but as soon as I do that, I’m free.

then I can act and I can walk in faith and not by sight. That supernatural gift of faith that God gives us, when we exercise that over and over and over again, then we kind of go from what you were talking about, a more superstitious walk with Christ and a more trusting free walk with Christ.

John McLarty: I’m just thinking I’ll just paraphrase. When Paul said that I might in the midst of his sufferings Paul had a lot of trials.

Kimberly Faith: Yes, Apostle Paul.

John McLarty: He said that I might know him and the power of his resurrection.

Kimberly Faith: Oh, yeah. That’s a good verse.

John McLarty: So, through these trials, we can know God better.

Kimberly Faith: That’s perfect.

John McLarty: That’s what happened to Job.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: Through his trial, it was revealed to him a clearer picture And

Kimberly Faith: of who God it’s funny because the book of Job starts with this court scene in heaven Mhmm. You know, where Satan is challenging God. Well, of course, Job serves you because you give him everything he needs, everything he wants, more than he needs because he’s a good man. Right? But make his life miserable and he’ll he will curse you.

And you think about Job was still, like all of us, I mean, we still have our flesh. Job still had his areas, his pockets where he had that needed to be refined. And he could not have done that without this trial. I mean, I presume that. You know?

I know that’s true in my own life. I can’t speak for Joe, but I can tell you that some of the biggest trials in my life have been the most pivotal places where I have changed radically in some area of my life towards the Lord and away from my old way of thinking. It’s kinda like we talk about being transformed by the renewing of your mind. You know? But you brought up Paul’s what Paul said, which ties into what Jesus did.

John McLarty: It does.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Christ was our greatest example.

John McLarty: Yeah. That I might know him and the power of his resurrection.

Kimberly Faith: Because Jesus’ story of suffering is the pinnacle, really. You know, he didn’t deserve we know he didn’t deserve to suffer because he was the righteous son of God. He was righteousness. And yet he chose it, which is his love, to reconcile us, us, all of humanity, to him because we chose sin, because we chose not to love him.

John McLarty: And there was a great obvious purpose in his suffering. It’s like he paid the sins of mankind. But here, you’ve got this man you talked about that’s been struck with this disease.

Kimberly Faith: A good person.

John McLarty: A good person. Yeah. But the perspective is maybe there’s a doctor, maybe there’s a nurse, maybe there’s a family member that needs to get closer to God or hear about God.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. Interestingly enough, I heard that one of his doctors is actually a born again believer. So they’re establishing a relationship that would have never been established.

John McLarty: Interesting.

Kimberly Faith: They’ve exchanged phone numbers and, you know, it’s so interesting that the Lord has there’s already these paths that him and his wife can see that God is opening up as a result of this serious illness. And it’s, you know, I think it’s kind of like with Jesus. The resurrection glory only came after the darkest storm imaginable, you know? But Jesus, know, he said, Take up your cross and follow me. I mean, that Well, being born again isn’t a promise that there’s not going be any problem.

It’s like, no, but I’m going to walk through the suffering with you if you let me.

John McLarty: That’s so important for us as Christians to understand that these storms of life don’t need to blow us over. They can actually be opportunities.

Kimberly Faith: Right. That’s a good phrase. Every storm is an opportunity. I like that. And it positions us.

And what’s interesting is that storms kind of are they have a twofold, I think, and probably more than twofold, but I think of two things that storms do for us. They give us positions to help people that we would never otherwise have been in, you know. Like when you’re in a waiting room in the hospital or you are the person in the hospital or you’re in a courtroom, you have a position you’re put in a position, whether you’re the person suffering or you’re the person there, that you would not have been in to minister to certain people that you would not have been in a position to minister to but for the suffering. And I mean, just like you use a simple example of the refrigerator going out. Well, you you don’t know what kind of seeds were planted today in the mind of the man that came.

You know, I mean, he may be we don’t know anything about him, but if he’s a born again believer, he may have been encouraged. If he’s not born again, he may hear the gospel for the first time. But you just did what God told you to do, but you are in that position. But kind of the second thing that it does for us too is, like we just talked about, it can draw us closer to God because we begin to see God for who he truly is.

John McLarty: And I’ll give you an example of that. Close to our life, our cousin George has had extreme back pain for decades. Right. And George, there’s multi faceted ministries George has, but one of them is just coming to church in such pain. And so many members look at George and go like, Wow, there’s George coming to church and just hugging everybody.

And here, I didn’t go to church last Sunday because I stubbed my toe.

I stubbed my toe. Yeah. Or a football game was on or just some, you know, and there’s George in pain. And George a testimony to others. Absolutely.

And his faithfulness in the midst of suffering.

Kimberly Faith: And the funny thing about I mean, well, it’s not funny, but it’s the crazy thing really about our reaction, even as born again believers, to pain is that it tends to pull us away from God when what we need the most is God’s presence to get through it. Because we we have this attitude based on the wrong image of God that we’re not supposed to suffer, that somehow we’re the exception of the rule. When Jesus said, no, I’m not even the exception to the rule. I’ve got to suffer so you can be reconciled. And that’s so counterintuitive because it should be pulling us closer to God.

And it’s it’s so the real battlefield isn’t the suffering or the circumstance itself, but it’s how close we are to God. Mhmm. You know? And, you know, God didn’t promise us we would avoid the fire, but he said, you won’t face it alone. I think about Isaiah 40 three:two, it says, when you pass through the waters, I will be with you.

When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned. Wow.

John McLarty: Yeah. That’s a great verse.

Kimberly Faith: And of course, you know that

John McLarty: So he’s not it’s I’ll be with you. I think that’s the key to that phrase, to that passage, I will be with you when you And pass through the

Kimberly Faith: that’s what Jesus said in Matthew. He said, Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age, when he was leaving to go to. I I I really I love Moses. I love reading about Moses and and something that he said just in the context of us being into the you know, entering into and maintaining a close relationship, intimate relationship with God staying in his presence, feeling his presence, which is, like I said, the challenge it’s a challenge for me, is when Moses I don’t know if you remember, but in Exodus when, you know, the Israelites were given were told, hey. You know what?

You guys are stiff necked. You worship worship this cow, the calf, you know, you can go on into the into the promised land. Mhmm. And God said, but I’m not going with you. Well, Moses and even the children of Israel were like, wait a minute.

We don’t really want the promised land without God. And that was the moment of repentance for them because he said if Moses said, if your presence does not go with us, do not do not take us there. And it was so interesting because just a side note, something I just recently studied, and this is a little bit of a rabbit, but it’s so worth saying. Humans, we often look to the great physical miracles to bring us close to God.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: But did you know that the time period from the 10 plagues that fell on Egypt, the liberation of the children of Israel, the crossing of the Red Sea, the manna in the wilderness, to the time when Moses went up to the mount to get the 10 commandments and the, and he was gone too long to suit the Israelites. And they asked Aaron to build them a god. Do you know how much

time had elapsed between those two? No. All those miracles, it was based on what I can tell, it was probably less than three months.

Isn’t that interesting? Think about that. He parted the Red Sea, the 10 plagues, the deliverance from the from pharaoh’s army, the manna in the wilderness. I did some study on this. I think I’m right about this.

Now if you’re listening to this and you have some other information, I would love to hear from you because, I’d like to be corrected. But can you imagine witnessing all those miracles? And then even worse, Aaron, who was probably afraid and built the golden

John McLarty: I was just thinking, after all that, so in rapid succession.

Jacob Paul: Then they built the golden calf.

Kimberly Faith: And Aaron said to the Israelites, Worship this calf that delivered you from the Egyptians.

John McLarty: Yeah. We’re so prone to go back to the worshiping the world.

Kimberly Faith: Well, think about and like our money.

John McLarty: Yeah. Money.

Kimberly Faith: Our job. Yeah. And and that’s when that’s and then so right after that, they’re having this God is just like, I’m gonna destroy them. I’m gonna forget this. Know?

Moses is

John McLarty: Moses like is intervening.

Kimberly Faith: Moses is like, wait, God. Wait. Yeah. I’m mad too. He broke the tablets.

You know? He’s like and and so they set up these tents outside the camp to as places of repentance, you know, recognizing that they had strayed so far from god’s presence and they needed god’s presence. And, you know, I just thought that was really powerful because that is the battlefield.

John McLarty: I love that phrase, if your presence does not go with us, do not bring us up from here.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, I mean, look, we can criticize the Israelites and all their unbelief, but we’re just like them.

John McLarty: We’re just yeah. They’re a picture of us. That’s right. We’re like them. Right.

Yeah. The human condition.

Kimberly Faith: We dethrone God so quickly in our life, and especially when trouble comes. Mean, even they’ve been given manna, then they complained they didn’t have water and got water out of the rock, right? And I

John McLarty: think that’s one of the challenges here, to flip the script. When trouble comes, see it as an opportunity.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And that’s, I mean, to say, hard to do.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. Especially when it’s something as horrible and as life altering as, Am I about to lose my life? Right. And I think that that is where our relationship with God is revealed and the distance we are from God is revealed by how much we lose it when trouble comes. And I think you know what I think about?

I think about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace.

John McLarty: In the fiery furnace under King Nebuchadnezzar.

Kimberly Faith: And Nebuchadnezzar looked

John McLarty: at I just read that. I’ve read Nehemiah just maybe a week ago.

Kimberly Faith: Oh, well

John McLarty: Great stories.

Kimberly Faith: Well, let’s read that passage out of Daniel three where Nebuchadnezzar looks into the fire.

John McLarty: Yeah, so three had been cast into the fire. Right. Because they wouldn’t

Kimberly Faith: Bow down to that.

John McLarty: Bow down to, was it the image he had made? Yeah, the big image. Probably a statue himself.

Kimberly Faith: Is what we do So, too,

John McLarty: yeah, Daniel three twenty four and twenty five, Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished. He looked into the fiery furnace, and did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? Look, he answered, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt, And the former the fourth is like the son of God. Wow.

Kimberly Faith: So here they are.

John McLarty: They had gone in that fiery furnace, basically. They didn’t know they would be delivered. No. But they said God can deliver us. Right.

But throw us in. We’re not going to bow to the statue.

Kimberly Faith: They knew God. Their their their relationship with God was so strong and so close and so intimate. They said, God can choose to do what he wants. He can deliver us or not deliver us. Throw us in.

We’re not bowing down. And, you know, I think about when we see that fourth man in the fire with us, so to speak, then fear loses its grip on us. But that fourth man is Jesus Christ it’s our intimacy Yeah. With And, again, God, if we allow him, our suffering will not be wasted. He doesn’t casually allow these things to happen.

He and I believe me, I don’t I don’t even pretend to understand why God allows such horrible suffering sometimes and not other times. And I know that he prevents a lot of suffering that and holds back a lot of suffering. We know that because the presence of the church and what’s gonna happen in the great tribulation.

John McLarty: Yeah, Satan’s the great destroyer, the murderer. I mean, if Satan was truly constrained, not constrained, there would just be

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. We know that’s gonna happen in the tribulation. The Bible talks about that. I don’t have that quote here in the scripture, but we’ve read that and certainly can look that up. But it’s so interesting that when we know God for who he’s he he says he is, he’s righteous, just, and loving, and that his love covered his first of all, satisfied his justice, but but also makes us righteous, then we can trust him in the suffering to do his deepest work in us, and we can know that this thing that says, I I know I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me Right.

Is a real promise. And I can walk through this suffering because where my strength ends and my dependence begins is with where he takes over. And really, our strength needs to end in our mind at even our existence, that we are even breathing right now, that our heart is beating because that is all dependent upon God. We live like we think we’re self sufficient and we’re just not.

John McLarty: And it’s really a challenge. I just want to emphasize, this is all easy to say. You’re sitting in a comfortable house. But when the trials come and major trials, I mean, you think of Job or you think of just persecution. But we pray that we would rise to the occasion and seek God’s peace and comfort and look for opportunities to minister Absolutely.

In times of

Kimberly Faith: And you know, the thing that anchors us, the last couple podcasts were about our eternal security in Christ and the reasons we can know that our salvation is secure is that we can find our identity more and more in who God is as opposed to our performance.

John McLarty: Or our circumstances.

Kimberly Faith: Or our circumstances. That’s right. And then we can know that Romans eight twenty eight is true, that all things work together for good to those who love God and who are the called according to his purpose. Loving God

John McLarty: is living

Kimberly Faith: according to his will because you love him, not because you are afraid of him.

John McLarty: In one of these closing verses, Isaiah 6six 13, and this is going back to that understanding the heart of God. As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you.

Kimberly Faith: That’s beautiful.

John McLarty: So, when you hear even Fox’s Book of Martyrs, people being martyred, but comfort comes upon them. It has to be in a supernatural way.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. Absolutely.

John McLarty: So, that’s one of the things for us to just rest in is God will help us through trials. And here in our lives, our trials might be the refrigerator goes out the day of a fellowship. But God’s a great God.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. And just along with what you’re saying, we don’t have this mindset naturally. We have to do certain things, discipline ourselves to do certain things to maintain our closeness to God because we have the enemy that’s within, talked about Romans chapter seven, right? We have the enemy that’s without, and they’re pounding on us day and night to keep us, to rip us away from this close relationship with God. And the only way we maintain that is by reading God’s word, hiding his word in our heart, praying.

Because hiding God’s word in our heart gives us a response to the enemy, You

John McLarty: know? Right.

Kimberly Faith: Fellowship with the believers, membership in a church, you know, discipling other people, because what that does is it forces you to know what you’re saying. It forces forces you to know what you believe. Right. Answering the question of the of the person in in your office who says, well, I don’t understand, you know, why I don’t have to work for my salvation. You need to know how to give an answer, but you don’t get there by sleeping with your head on your bible.

Or leaving it on the mantle. We have got to be diligent and determined, more diligent, more determined, more dedicated to pursuing God than we are about pursuing anything else in our life.

John McLarty: And something you just said reminded me of this. I just read the book of Daniel. It’s kind of the part of renewing our perspective or keeping the right perspective is to be associated with the fellowship of believers. I mean, we need to be in the word and in prayer and study. But I thought of Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, when Daniel was challenged to interpret the dream, that the king didn’t even tell him what the dream was.

He said, You need to tell me the dream and the meaning, or we’re going to kill all the wise men in the area, including you and your three friends. Daniel went to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Interesting. And he said, pray. Pray for this situation.

And he didn’t have the answer at that time. But he went to his little band of believers It’s gonna ring. And he said, We need to pray and petition God. And then God revealed to Daniel the dream. So, just tying that all in.

Those that are listening to the podcast, we strengthen each other. And we’re just looking at the Bible and sharing experiences.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Because God does have a response to pain and suffering. He does. And his first response was to come and die and give his life to reconcile us to him. He is life.

Jesus says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father but by me. Is that what he said?

John McLarty: Mhmm.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. I got that right. Right?

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: And and so his first response to our decision to cause pain to ourselves and to this this cancer of sin, right, that’s destroying the world and destroying humanity is I’m gonna die for you, and I’m gonna pay the price so that you can be reconciled. You have a way back. And then his continued response to our pain and suffering is, I’ll comfort you. I’ll give you wisdom like you just shared about Shadrach, Meshach, Aben Daniel. Right?

John McLarty: Mhmm.

Kimberly Faith: I will I will give you strength. I will empower you to overcome this for my glory, which is what you were created And so to look at our pain as from God’s perspective is to say, God, I know this is an opportunity, but I can’t handle it. I need you to handle it. I need you to show me. You know, Daniel couldn’t handle the answer to Nebuchadnezzar’s question.

He went right to God. Prayer needs to be our first response, not our last resort.

John McLarty: And then it is interesting that those very three were the ones thrown into the fiery furnace, and they were rewarded with God’s presence in the fiery furnace.

Kimberly Faith: I didn’t think about that. That is really incredible. And again, they didn’t know when they were making that decision not to bat under that idol that thousands of years later, their lives would go down in history as being recorded as faithful. An amazing It would

John McLarty: go down.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. So, like you were saying, dad, if you’re listening to this podcast and you’ve got suffering, which I’m sure most people who are listening do, the answer isn’t why, the answer is who, meaning God. Draw close to him. He will draw close

John McLarty: to He will draw, yep.

Kimberly Faith: And you’ll

John McLarty: You will draw nigh unto you. This is he.

Kimberly Faith: And I can’t remember that verse, but it says that it talks about the relationship with God. You’ll hear you’ll hear a voice behind you say, Go this way, go that way.

John McLarty: And

Kimberly Faith: that is such a gift. The creator of the universe saying, I have a plan. Just listen.

John McLarty: He wants to comfort us through small trials and huge trials.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. God’s response to our pain isn’t he doesn’t he doesn’t draw run away from us. He he says, no. I’m your refuge in the storm. Draw near to me.

John McLarty: Yeah. A lot of Psalms talk about he’s our refuge in a time of storm.

Kimberly Faith: Amen. Very true. Amen, God.

Jacob Paul: You’ve been listening to the truth and love podcast with your hosts, Kimberly Faith and John Mack. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us at gofaithstrong.com.