Episode 52: The Prodigal I love: A mother’s story of God’s Redemptive Grace

Jacob Paul: Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast with your host, Kimberly Faith. The Truth in Love podcast seeks to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.

KimberlyFaith: Debbie, it’s really good to see you again. Thank you. It’s been a hot minute. It has. And I’m pretty sure the last time I saw you was not a happy time.

No. It was bittersweet. It was. Yeah. And so I want to  introduce you to our audience.

Debbie is the mother of a man that I met some years ago named Chris.

Chris and I met under circumstances in my office, in my law office. Before I jump into Chris’ story, one of the things I’d like to share is something that CS Lewis wrote in the book, The Weight of Glory. And the reason I want to  bring this up is because I think sometimes we meet people and we lose God’s perspective about them when we start judging them. And do you agree with that? I do.

And Chris’ journey was so remarkable that I think it merits reminding us all, because I have to remind myself of this every day because we judge. Yes. We are just judgers all the time. And it’s just how we’re wired that way. Our flesh is wired that way.

But C. S. Lewis said in his book, The Way of Glory, it’s a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses. To remember that the dullest, most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which if you saw them now, you would strongly be tempted to worship or who it might cause your greatest nightmare. And he goes on to say, there’s no ordinary people.

You’ve never talked to a mere mortal. It is immortals with whom we joke, work with, snub, marry, exploit. And I just love that quote from him because it reminds me that each human is made in God’s image. Yes. And, you know and really, we have the extraordinary opportunity to either guide them into immortal splendor or immortal horror.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: And so the day I met Chris, this first time was back in 02/2013, and you know this, that it was in my office. He was in a little trouble. And my first impression of him was what a beautiful man. He was, you know, he just had these amazing blue eyes, tall, blonde, and he just wanted to hug him. Aw.

You know what I’m saying? Because he just had that personality. And he was so transparent. He was like, Yep, I’ve made a mess of my life. And he was so I was like, Man, that is really refreshing.

And so, this was my first impression of Chris. And I think, I don’t know, you tell us, is that how he was as a child?

Debbie Dieman: Pretty much. He was taught not to lie about anything. And if you messed up, you gotta stand up for what you did. Yeah. So it sounds like he did that with you.

KimberlyFaith: He did that. And, you know, I think what impressed me the most was just his sincerity. And plus he was a beautiful man. Yes. Thank really was.

Thank you. Of course, I’m sitting here looking at you and I understand why. Yeah. Because you’re a beautiful woman. Oh my goodness.

Debbie Dieman: Thank you. He had a very handsome daddy.

KimberlyFaith: Well, I was so impressed that he was very transparent. Of course, I asked him about, at that point, just like I do with most of my clients who come into my office are in some kind of trouble, you know, maybe are running with the law as we say, you know, about their relationship with the Lord. And, you know, he told me he had made a profession of faith and, but he just was, you know, he was in a bad situation because of an addiction issue that he had. And I you know, for those who may remember Chris, I would like for you to kind of give us a bit of how did that happen? I mean, because I know he was raised in a God fearing home.

Right? Had the best life, was an amazing young young guy.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: And then did something happen to him that kind of sent him on that spiral?

Debbie Dieman: Well, I think physically, yes. When he was 11 years old, he was pretty much run over by a vehicle. The girl wasn’t watching where she was driving and he knew she was going to hit him head on. He was on a little moped on a dirt road and God saved him. He ended up on the vehicle.

His femur, his right femur was busted twice. But God held, really held his leg in the handlebars of that moped. He still went up onto the car with such force that the paint melded into the helmet. So there was that. He spent thirty days in the hospital.

Debbie Dieman: He spent sixty days in a Spica cast, which is almost a full body cast. The doctor said that he would never walk correctly, much less run, but he was very determined. And when the doctors were telling us this information, he was 11 and he said, I will, I’m going to run. And two years later, he meddled. He went to state for run cross country.

KimberlyFaith: Oh my God. I didn’t know this story. You didn’t tell me the story. Yeah. That is wonderful.

Debbie Dieman: He grew up pretty humble. We didn’t have a lot of money, but we had an awful lot of love. Chuck and I, we just were crazy about our boys and they

KimberlyFaith: worked hard. Now let me ask you this. So he was injured at a very young age. Very young. Did something else happen where he became addicted to pain medication later?

Debbie Dieman: Not yet.

KimberlyFaith: What  happened to him?

Debbie Dieman: Well, when he was a junior in high school, he took his brother’s dirt bike down to the river with the seniors. And there was a little gal on the back of the bike. They’re not made for passengers. And he showed off, from what I understand, revved the motor, the bike started up in the air, the girl jumped off and Christopher landed on the bridge with his legs on the bridge and his head headed down towards the water. And then the bike came down on his legs and busted his legs.

Oh my goodness. He slid into the river and the kids ran in and got him. They said that his leg came up in front of him. So he ended up in the hospital there with that. But that wasn’t all that he did.

When he was about 21 or 22, he was working for

KimberlyFaith: So he recovered from that. He did. Oh my goodness. Okay.

Debbie Dieman: So, yeah, his leg was broken again. And then he was working on a house with this builder and they were getting ready to leave for the day, but the scaffolding had not been secured. And Chris, they were already getting ready to leave and Christopher said, I’ll get it. And he was told not to, but he ran on anyway, got up on the scaffolding and another young man was holding it. But Chris was up on the ramp and the other kid couldn’t hold the scaffold and the scaffolding went down and Christopher went down feet first onto the rocks below and then busted his legs again.

And that is when the doctor in Rolla put him on oxycodone as much as he wanted, whenever he wanted it. And I had no idea what oxycodone was or did. Just trusted the doctors. Right. But that was, I believe, the beginning of his spiral into the depths of hell because that is where drugs take you.

KimberlyFaith: Yeah. So, I don’t think I knew the history of those three kinds of big traumatic injuries in his life, but it’s in my office, I hear a lot of people say, didn’t just one day wake up and start taking meth.

Debbie Dieman: Press.

KimberlyFaith: It was usually there on either side, there was some traumatic event that happened. Yes. The other end of that spectrum is people who are just bored, who need a bigger kick, but that doesn’t sound like it was Chris. Chris started, it was legitimately he had pain. Yes.

And so when he came to my office, then years later, it had morphed into a more serious addiction and there were some legal implications that had been triggered. And that’s when we had that conversation about his salvation. And I’m sure you tell us at some point when he was a younger kid, he probably made a profession of faith because you all took him to church. Yes. Yeah.

He professed to know Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior. Yeah.

Debbie Dieman: I believe he loved the Lord.

KimberlyFaith: Yeah. Well, kids, you know, kids have a natural love for the Lord, I think. They do. And so because they’re before they sin, before they have commit moral evil, knowingly, I think that their spirit is in their soul very much in connection with Jesus Christ. So fast forwarding, like, now, I didn’t see Chris again until August 2022.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: And he stopped by my office and I could tell he was desperate. He was crying. He was not the same person I had seen in 2013. And we talked for about an hour. And he was telling me how he was describing actually in his words how his choices had basically robbed him of his best life.

And he had a drug overdose in conjunction with the legal trouble he was facing. And he described, dying really and going into the presence of hell. Yeah. And he was describing that as this awful, putrid, rotten smell. Mhmm.

And he was scared. Mhmm. He was so scared. And of course, he was very scared also of the legal implications based on the situation. But, you know, it was interesting as I was sitting there and I was remembering who I had seen eleven years earlier.

I just felt like God’s spirit had led me. And I say, Chris, you told me back in 2013 that you had received Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior. I just want to  ask you what proof? What proof do you have that this happened? You know?

And he didn’t answer me.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: He just looked at me. And I, you know, explained to him, you know, if a person is born again, there’s fruit because they’re connected to the vine. You know? Yes. And we talked about that.

So, because he  I think, you know, sometimes you’re talking to people who are in the depth of sorrow. You want to, I mean, I want to have compassion obviously, but it’s also many times a great opportunity because they’re ready to listen. Yes. You know? And so the Lord led me to share my testimony with him of salvation, which you were reading my tract earlier.

Debbie Dieman: So that

KimberlyFaith: was what I was sharing with him. You know? And, well, I had asked him. I said, you know, Chris, one of the fruit of the spirit is self control. And do you, I asked him, do you see that in your life?

And he’s just like, no. I don’t. So that’s why I was like, okay. Let’s go back, and let’s talk about when you said I do to Jesus and surrendered to him for salvation. And, you know, I told him my testimony about how I received Jesus Christ as my Lord savior.

I remember it. Remember the weight was lifted. It was it was it was just it was insurmountable, unparalleled joy. And he couldn’t remember. He couldn’t remember that happening in his life.

And his story was pretty vague and I kind of just felt like I was kind of excited for him to know that he didn’t know. Uh-huh. But don’t you think that many people don’t get saved because they don’t believe they really need it? You know what I’m saying? You have to sometimes get people lost before you get them saved.

And I think for people who grew up in church a lot of times, they do this, they go forward, they get baptized, but they really don’t understand. I don’t know if that’s what happened to him or not, But he was very much at the point and that at that point in time in my office where he said he was recognizing that there needed to be a godly repentance and a desire to turn from his his lifestyle that he that he had that had been dragging the life out of him. And he was pretty upset with me because I declined to represent him at the time. Oh. And well, I told him, you don’t need a lawyer right now.

You need a savior and you need to get that right.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: And really it broke my heart to tell him that, but I felt like that’s what the holy spirit wanted me to do.

Debbie Dieman: Gotta be honest. Yeah.

KimberlyFaith: Well, what I told him was, look, I don’t want to help you again like I did eleven years earlier. Yes. So you can get out of trouble and then go get in worse trouble.

Debbie Dieman: Yes.

KimberlyFaith: I mean, we call that recidivism, right? How high or low is the recidivism rate? So, you know, I was going to give you credit for training up good character in this boy. Oh, thank Because he wasn’t angry with me. He was just sad.

Yeah. And he understood what I was saying. And so, you know, of course, I don’t know if I told you this or not, but right after he left, I called my mom, who’s my prayer warrior. She’s the one, the power behind the ministry. I said, mom, I got another person to add to the prayer list.

And so she did. I didn’t tell her any details, of course, because it would have been confidential at that point. Right? Well, two weeks later, August 29, he called know, he had called my office to make an appointment. I wasn’t going to see him again.

But my office team kept saying, he is insistent. He needs to see you. And he wants to bring his mom. Do you remember him saying that to you?

Debbie Dieman: No. As a matter of fact, we pulled up in front of your office and he was going in and he said, You want to come, mom? And I thought, You want me to come with you? So I said, Yeah. I mean, I’m going to do whatever my kid wants.

So I went in and the rest of it was really pretty remarkable when we were sitting in there.

KimberlyFaith: Well, it was funny because when I saw him, when I went out to the waiting room to see him, you know, to get him and bring him back, I knew there was something different. And I was kind of surprised to see you there. I was like, well, I said, do you want your mom to be present? You did. I most certainly do.

I was like, well, okay, Chris, you know? All right. That’s when I very rarely am this direct with people, but I just knew the Holy Spirit was guiding and prompting this conversation. I remember we didn’t do much small talk. I was like, Chris, if you died tonight, do you know where you would go?

He looked me right in the eye and he said, yep.

Debbie Dieman: Yes. And what a blessing for me as a mom. I pretty much knew that, but for you to smack me in the little face with that was just because I had no idea that he would be leaving. None of us did six days later.

KimberlyFaith: Yeah. Well, and what was interesting about the conversation too is, I mean, I didn’t just I felt like that and maybe it was for you as much for him to hear. And I asked him, well, where are you going? You know, if you die, where are you going to  go? And he’s like, I’m, I do know I’m going to go to heaven because I know God doesn’t lie.

And I trusted Jesus as my Lord and savior. And man, I just, you know, I got excited. You remember that? I was like, wow. You know, I could feel his confidence in him knowing that he had trusted Jesus as his Lord and savior.

And it was such a blessing. Again, I feel so honored that God allowed me to be part of this journey.

Debbie Dieman: Do you

KimberlyFaith: know what I’m saying? It’s like, don’t To me, the greatest miracle, the greatest miracle that ever occurs on earth isn’t moving a mountain from Rala to Lebanon or, you know, causing the sun and earth the sun and moon to stand still. It is when one person receives Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior.

Debbie Dieman: Yes. Because that’s eternal. Yes.

KimberlyFaith: And to be part of that, it was just like, it’s not even describable really. It’s like you can’t adequately articulate that experience because it’s so deeply spiritual. But it was such a rejoicing moment for me to have you there. You know? Because I know I’m a mom.

Yeah. And I knew what you’d been through with him, some of it, not all of it, but found some of it today, you know? And, you know, that day, I remember we made a plan. I was going to  represent him and I was going to  we were going to  put together a spiritual growth plan and we were just going to  watch Chris blow it, you know, blow the roof off. Right?

Debbie Dieman: Yeah. Yeah.

KimberlyFaith: And you’re right. We didn’t know that six days later, you would find him kneeling by his bed just and he’d gone on to be with the Lord. Yeah. What a I I still you know, when I was rereading some of my notes from that meeting and and before I called you to see if you wanted to do this podcast, I just bawled. Oh.

I was just like that man. And it goes back to what CS Lewis was saying. Mhmm. We don’t know if the person that we meet today that we might be judging, like, that person is a drug addict. We can’t you know, they’re not going to  ever, or that person is a millionaire.

They’re not going to  listen or whatever the situation might be. Well, we’re judging where they are without even letting the spirit direct us. Yes. To bring them to where they need to be. Yes.

Debbie Dieman: Moms know that though. And I knew, as mom, I knew that they’re worth saving. And it’s because of Christopher that I think I am less judgmental of people. I see. I don’t understand addiction because that was Not

KimberlyFaith: your thing.

Debbie Dieman: Yeah. I used to think I was addicted to chocolate. I’m not addicted to anything. And so, to watch him struggle with that was torment. It was just torment daily.

KimberlyFaith: And you bring up a good point, Debbie. I think that we don’t understand each other’s particular addictions. But the bottom line and you tell me if you think I’m right about this or wrong about it, but our addiction is really to self. Our we all have addictions to self in our own way. That’s true. We choose to maybe stay home on Sunday morning because we’d rather go to the lake instead of being part of a worship and engaged in a church.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: We may choose to, you know, not invite somebody over because it’s too much trouble to to host them for dinner and maybe minister to them. Mhmm. You know, Jesus washed our feet. He washed the disciples’ feet. Yes.

And I think that when we choose selfishness in our own way over God’s way, we are addicted to ourselves. That may sound harsh, but I try to always, when I see somebody that I’m judging, like, let’s say I was judging someone who was a drug addict, I would say the Lord is so good. Turn that on its head and say, why are you judging that person? You’re that servant who was who was forgiven $10,000,000,000,000

Debbie Dieman: Yes.

KimberlyFaith: And you’ve got a bank full of $10,000,000,000,000, why are you judging the person who, you know, owes you $10? Mhmm. You know? Does that make sense?

Debbie Dieman: Yes. It makes perfect sense.

KimberlyFaith: And it’s so but it’s so cool that your attitude has pivoted with people who have had similar issues to Chris. Yes. That’s an indication of the holy spirit, isn’t it? He works. Yes.

And I think Chris’s story is classic classic because it’s classic Jesus taking evil and working it against itself. Yes. I mean, isn’t so  I have a question

Debbie Dieman: for you.

KimberlyFaith: Okay. You mentioned before we were talking, about the last thirty days before Chris died.

Debbie Dieman: Yes.

KimberlyFaith: That he had moved home with you and that he had actually ministered to another person that was and also had addiction issues. Is that right? Yes. Who was that person?

Debbie Dieman: That was, I believe, that it was a girl that he loved very much. And she was an addict and she was apparently going to jail, prison, whatever. And I did contact her later and she told me that the last time she saw him he held her face in his hands with tears in his eyes and he said, This is it. Our lives are changing from now on forward. Little did he know how his life was going to  change into eternity with the Lord, but they didn’t know what would happen with her also.

And she has given her whole life to the Lord. She’s getting ready to go to Africa on a mission. Minister to people.

KimberlyFaith: Wow.

Debbie Dieman: She sold out to Jesus 100%. Wow. And she attributes every bit of it to Christopher.

KimberlyFaith: Wow. Yeah. I didn’t even know that. So the story continues.

Debbie Dieman: Yes. Right? And I had to forgive her because he would go to her rescue any time of the day or night. And she was his weakness and he wanted to save her. He couldn’t save himself, but he wanted to save her.

And that was the way he was made. He was precious.

KimberlyFaith: He was so precious. And I could see that night shining night characteristic in him. Yeah. Isn’t it interesting though how it took him losing his life to save her?

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: Isn’t that that’s just such a biblical thing. Because Jesus said, unless you’re willing to, you know, to lay down your life and even if that means walking away from family, you know, that, you know, we aren’t going to  be able to be his disciples. Mhmm. But Chris was all in. I could tell he was all in.

Even if it was just for thirty days, he was all in and he planted seeds. He planted

Debbie Dieman: a seed in me. Apparently, did a lot of that in his life. When he passed, there were so many people that came to me and expressed love for him and what a difference that he had made in their lives. And they all looked different. Some of them looked just like him and some of them I mean, girls, guys, people just seem to really love Christopher.

KimberlyFaith: You know, you bring up a really interesting point that I think merits discussion, and that is when we train up our children in the way they should go. You know, even if you didn’t believe in God, but you live by the 10 commandments.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: That’s such a powerful influence because it’s selflessness. Right? It’s unfortunate that selflessness without God, God offers us so much, you know, if we’ll live for his glory. What you’re describing as a, as a young man who was brought up with godly principles and that formed his character in the way he related to people, his selflessness, his love. And even though he may not have been saved, born again, while he was showing those characteristics, the biblical values are so strong.

They were. Even without him being able to represent his own salvation to people because he didn’t have it.

Debbie Dieman: Yes.

KimberlyFaith: He was still having a testimony for God’s glory and God took what he meant for evil and worked it for good.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: And that’s attributable to a large part to you and your husband raising him Uh-huh. You know, in a way that he should go.

Debbie Dieman: Well, we’re commanded to do that, aren’t we? We are. Yeah.

KimberlyFaith: I know you say that as if, duh. And and and you know what? That’s the way we should look at it.

Debbie Dieman: Right? But

KimberlyFaith: I am just making this observation about, you know, what you’re saying about the seeds that Chris planted. I know at his funeral, you had asked me to tell me this tell the story of his funeral, which I was very honored to do. And I sensed even at his funeral that and this was, you know, three years ago now. Right? Yes.

There were people who were connecting to his story and the gospel. And we don’t know. The nice thing is we’re just commanded to plant the seeds. Mhmm. We don’t have to be saving anybody or be their holy spirit. Aren’t you glad?

Debbie Dieman: Yes. Thank you, Jesus.

KimberlyFaith: I’d be a really bad holy spirit No. Knocking people over the head. Well, if, and I want to  add something else because you were telling me before we started recording that Chris you were your husband, of course, was suffering from dementia at this time, pretty significant dementia.

Debbie Dieman: Well, he had had a stroke six years previous that took out his right side.

KimberlyFaith: Oh, so it wasn’t dementia?

Debbie Dieman: It was not dementia.

KimberlyFaith: I’m sorry.

Debbie Dieman: It infected his head, but because stroke isn’t just your physical body, it is also your head.

KimberlyFaith: Your brain, yes.

Debbie Dieman: Christopher, my husband was he called his dad his best friend in the world.

KimberlyFaith: Your husband, Chuck, was one of the sweetest, strongest, kind I mean, he just was a kind, honorable man. He just was.

Debbie Dieman: I was blessed.

KimberlyFaith: You were so blessed. And I know that your I could tell that Chuck was very thrilled to have Chris there the last thirty days of his life. Yeah. And I remember talking to him at the funeral, and he just didn’t say much to me, but he just hugged me and cried. And we, you know

Debbie Dieman: Chuck did? Yes. I love that.

KimberlyFaith: Yes. He he I I just loved his spirit, you know, even though he couldn’t communicate as well. Right? I didn’t, he didn’t have to.

Debbie Dieman: You know, didn’t

KimberlyFaith: have to. His soul and spirit were very

Debbie Dieman: much intact. He was so broken because, you know, his family, it was everything to him. Right. His two sons and me, of course. But it’s kind of a Chris coming home was kind of a strange thing.

A friend of his called and I was suffering from stage four melanoma cancer. I remember that.

KimberlyFaith: And your leg was so swollen.

Debbie Dieman: I finally ended up at Siteman in St. Louis and they put me in a trial and they, by the way, I’m the first person in America to go through this trial and they’ve used it on other people and had great success. But I had tumors from a mole on my ankle that had turned into like over a 100 tumors from my ankle to

KimberlyFaith: was my below your my Were they giving you a prognosis?

Debbie Dieman: They told me Up at Columbia, they told me that there was nothing more that they could do for me. But Doctor. Papagiorgio told me, he said, I know that you’re a woman of great faith and I’ve seen the miracles happen and miracles happen one after the other. So Christopher, I was not this friend of his called and asked if Chris could come home. I said, No.

I just couldn’t deal with anything anymore. Because you had Chuck, you had your own health, and you

KimberlyFaith: were given a weren’t you given a prognosis of when you were

Debbie Dieman: Two months to live.

KimberlyFaith: Two

Debbie Dieman: Yeah. Yes. If I did chemo and I refused chemo because I would have been more sick. Right. And you couldn’t take care of Chuck.

And I asked the Lord, I said, will you please let me live till June? Because see, this was earlier, because it was our fiftieth wedding anniversary and I’d worked really hard for that mile marker. And the Lord let me live. And then I asked him, I said, please let me live long enough to take care of this man because I didn’t want him going in a nursing home.

KimberlyFaith: Right.

Debbie Dieman: But and so that was Chris came home the August. The guy the friend told me, he said, Debbie, Chris really needs to come home. And he said, I’ll bring him if you’ll let him come home. And I said, okay. So he went and got him, and he pulled up in my driveway an hour and a half later, And I watched Christopher get out of that car, and he had the biggest smile on his face.

And for thirty some days, that’s how I saw him every single time.

KimberlyFaith: Wow.

Debbie Dieman: This big smile, he was singing and dancing, but he was in a lot of pain. And neither him nor his dad told me about it until the night before Christopher died. And so it was his leg, the screws were coming out of that terribly damaged leg. And my doctor who had seen Chris DeFer plus the EMTs felt like there were blood clots moving in his legs and that was what was causing tremendous pain for him.

Debbie Dieman: of course, I didn’t know I didn’t have a clue that it could have been a blood clot or anything.

KimberlyFaith: Right. In fact, that’s what they when they found him what’s amazing to me, kneeling beside his bed when he died. And they believed it was a pulmonary embolism that he died of. And, you know, of course, I know you’ve described your last thirty days with your son many times to me just being the most precious time. He was kind, he was caring, he cared for you.

He ate your cookies out of your cookie jar and tried to get to blame an opportunity to blame you on blame you for that. Right? Yes. And precious memories. And what a gift.

What a gift. I mean, there was a day appointed for him. Yes. But the events that happened, the way the Lord allowed him to get into legal trouble, to bring him home. Yes.

I mean, what a no one could have orchestrated that but God. No.

Debbie Dieman: It was my prodigal child right there with me, wanting to do what he’d wanted to do for years and years, change his life. And getting ready to come see Kim Lo, who is pretty strong. What a testimony that girl’s got.

KimberlyFaith: Oh, I don’t know who she is. I think I somebody Jesus must have redeemed. Well, you know what, though? I I again, I I think about this. And honestly, Debbie, I can’t believe that God can use someone who is so broken like me to bring people to Jesus.

Debbie Dieman: Oh my. Just I my story is such a train wreck too. But you see that in other people. And that’s why apparently you’re doing these podcasts to help and encourage other people. And that’s what you saw in Christopher.

I did see that. Broken people have if you on this if you lived this flat line life where there’s no ups or downs, it’s really difficult to see those people that they’re struggling and But what a testimony you have. And because of that, because you went through some difficult times, obviously, as a little bitty girl, then and even as you got older, you could you can see that you’ve got this passionate heart. And I know this podcast isn’t about you, but it is because of what the difference that you’re making in other people’s lives. And that’s what’s giving me the courage to sit here with you and talk about my boy.

KimberlyFaith: Well, let me tell you, I’ve never been where you are and I just appreciate so much that you’re willing to share your boy’s story.

Debbie Dieman: Yeah. It’s worth it.

KimberlyFaith: Yeah. It’s I think if Chris were able to join us on this podcast, I think that I think that he would and and, you know, you can you can tell me what what you think he would say, but I think he would want people to know Jesus Christ is the only way Yes. To heaven, and he’s the only way to be reconciled to God. Yes. And and, you know, I don’t know what people who are in paradise know or don’t know or see or don’t see, but God’s word tells us he is Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the father but by him.

Yeah. And the journey is the story that we have. We all have it. You have a journey, and I’m I’m I admire your courage so much in coming to tell Chris’ story. Thank you.

Because, you know, we all want our kids to be the the the hero, in the world’s eyes. We all as mothers, we just we want, oh, look at my son. He does blah blah blah. But I think the greater opportunities are when the day the prodigal comes home.

Debbie Dieman: Yes.

KimberlyFaith: Huge. Huge opportunities. Yes. Because all of us, even the person who I think you described as more of a flatline life, meaning not a lot of trauma, that person is just as much of a prodigal as any of us are. And because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

And and Isaiah says that all of our righteous deeds, our best righteousness are as filthy rags. Yep. Right? And, you know, Jesus I love the beatitudes. I don’t know if you’ve heard the our our podcast series on the beatitudes, but I call them the attitudes of Christ.

And the first one is being poor in spirit. And to be poor in spirit means you are bankrupt.

Debbie Dieman: Yeah. You have to

KimberlyFaith: come to God bankrupt. You know you’ve got nothing. And Jesus says, great, because I’ve got it all. And I want to  give it all to you.

Debbie Dieman: Uh-huh.

KimberlyFaith: And then we get saved by being spiritually bankrupt, acknowledging our need. And Chris was there.

Debbie Dieman: He was. He was there. He was pretty bankrupt.

KimberlyFaith: I was pretty bankrupt. You know? And but then for our Christian life, we have to live that way too. Yes. You know, we have to I wake up very I’m so glad that God just wears me out every day.

Because in the morning, if he didn’t wear me out the day before, I’d be, like, jumping out of bed, you know, taking the world by storm. And instead of later, I go, God, I got nothing. I got nothing. And I’m sure I can just imagine my heavenly father, there’s chuckling saying, yeah, you sure don’t. But watch this.

Let me blow your mind today. Yes. And that’s what he does. Yep. You know?

Debbie Dieman: Right into your spirit, man. Exactly. Yeah.

KimberlyFaith: And I truly believe that Chris, if he were here today, I think about the verses in Revelations where it talks about the new the new Jerusalem having no need of the sun, of the moon, for the glory of God illuminated it. The lamb and his light, its gates shall not be shut by all by at all by day because there’s not going to  be any night. And no one is going to enter that is an abomination or that has unrighteousness, but only those who are written in the lamb’s book of life. Yes. Chris got his name written in the lamb’s book of life.

Debbie Dieman: Yes, he did. When he received I know where he’s at.

KimberlyFaith: That’s right. And and I know if he were able to just sit down in this room with us and join us in this podcast, he would ask Mhmm. Is your name written in the lamb’s book of life?

Debbie Dieman: Yes.

KimberlyFaith: Because he’s met the lamb at this time.

Debbie Dieman: Eternity is a long, long, long time.

KimberlyFaith: Yes. And and the suffering that we experience on this earth is a preview of hell. Hell is the absence of God’s presence.

Debbie Dieman: Mhmm.

KimberlyFaith: You know? And when you think about the suffering, like when Paul talked about his suffering, Paul the apostle, and he gave thanks for his suffering. Yes. Because he said, when I am weak, then I am strong. Well, that’s going through suffering with God.

But when we choose to go through suffering without Jesus Christ as our savior, then we’re getting a preview of hell. Mhmm. And I would just encourage anyone who’s listening to this podcast, if you do not know Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, today is the day of salvation.

Debbie Dieman: Amen. That’s true. Yes. Eternity is a

KimberlyFaith: long time.

Debbie Dieman: You can’t

KimberlyFaith: wait. That’s right. You can’t wait.

Debbie Dieman: God is sovereign. When my boy went to bed that night, the last thing he said to me was, I love you, mom. He was going to take me to cowboy church the next morning. Yep. Over in Kabul somewhere.

And he didn’t come up the stairs. And so I went downstairs and as fast as I could, I couldn’t go very well because Because of leg. Because of my leg, yeah. But I knew something was wrong. And there was my son.

And I told my kids, my boys, from the time they were young, I said, you’ll always be my boys. You’ll always be my boys. When you get to be 80 and I’m 102, you’ll still be my baby boys. And Christopher would tell that to people. Yes, I am her baby boy.

He was kind of proud of that. But there he was beside my baby boy, was beside his bed and on his knees and with his head down. And God is sovereign. God took him. And I was angry with God, and I had a lot of questions for him.

And I asked him, I said, why did you take my boy? And he said, it was time. And I said, you just brought him home. He said, but I brought him home. Oh.

I brought him home. And I said, I didn’t get to hug him enough. And he said, but you got to hug him and love him and he got to love on you. And he was right. I had everything in those three, four weeks that I needed.

And I knew where my boy was. He’s in heaven. And Kim, I know that there are no tears in heaven. But I’m not so sure that they can’t maybe it’s possible that they can see the good stuff that’s going on down here. And I think when you ask if Christopher could be here, I’m not so sure that he can’t see what’s going on.

And he’s probably jumping around. Chuck is up there with him now, and he’s going, look, dad. Look, dad. The kid’s got mom sitting there with her. And my things are there’s good stuff. Good stuff.

KimberlyFaith: Yeah. I love that description. Is you know what? That’s beautiful. And I think that’s a good way to end this podcast.

Debbie Dieman: Thank you.

KimberlyFaith: Yeah. Thank you so much for

Debbie Dieman: Oh, Kim. It’s my pleasure. It’s my honor.

KimberlyFaith: It was my honor to know your son, and I can’t wait to see him again someday. You will. If today’s episode stirred your heart, we want to invite you to go even deeper. At gofaithstrong.com, you’ll find a growing library of faith based resources designed to encourage, equip, and strengthen your walk with God every single day. Whether you’re searching for meaningful devotionals, real life testimonies, Christ centered blog posts, or soul stirring music, it’s all there, created to meet you where you are and lead you closer to where God is calling you to be.

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