Episode 32: Salvation In The Old & New Testament: Did God Change The Rules?

Jacob Paul: Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts Kimberly Faith and John Mac. The Truth in Love podcast seeks to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.

Kimberly Faith: Alright. Welcome back to the Truth in Love podcast. Dad and I are here today. I don’t know if we’re co hosts, Dad, because I think you’re going to be the one that I’m asking questions to, and you’re going to be teaching today on an amazing subject that I think a lot of people want to know the answer to, and a lot of people don’t know the answer to and think they know the answer to, but maybe don’t know how to explain it. And that is when did the gospel of grace begin? So break us in easy here.

John McLarty: Well, I’m just really glad to be here on another podcast with you, Kim, and this is an amazing topic. We’ve talked about it a little bit and been taught this, you know, all of our life, but just digging into it a little deeper, it’s really exciting.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: Just the idea, it’s when did the gospel of grace begin, and we’ll dig into that.

Kimberly Faith: I think a lot of people have been taught that because when you read the Old Testament, it sounds like all the sacrifices equate to salvation or are supposed to earn salvation or reconciliation with God. Because on its face, if you don’t have a clear understanding of who God is and why his nature requires certain things in order to be reconciled to him, it would seem like that’s what’s going on. And a lot of people have that, I think a lot of misinformation and just really kind of just ignorance. I mean, and I don’t mean to say that in a bad way, but they just haven’t been taught because they don’t understand that the nature of God determines everything.

John McLarty: Yes. I think there’s kind of an assumption, you know, Old Testament, New Testament, and the Old Testament was so much about Israel fulfilling the law and, you know, rituals and sacrifices. People assume somehow they were maybe working for or earning their salvation. And then in the New Testament, at least to most that read it seriously, it’s very obvious that salvation is by grace through faith.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: There are no works. So people kind of think, well, that changed. Something changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament because Jesus was here and he made the payment on the cross. But we’ll just start off with a verse here that’s pretty remarkable out of Revelations 13:8, and I’ll just read it. “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him”. And this is referring to the time of tribulation. So this him is the beast, which is, you know, kind of one of the versions of the antichrist. So people will worship the beast during the tribulation. And those people, it says, “whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world”. But the takeaway from here is that in the mind of God, in the infinite and timeless mind of God, the provision of the sin payment of Jesus Christ was a settled issue from the very foundation of the world. In other words, it was a done deal.

Kimberly Faith: That is really amazing, but it’s very consistent with, you know, the nature of God having existed from the beginning. And you know, that’s never changed. His nature has never changed. And therefore the requirements to reconcile humanity to him from Adam forward didn’t change either because it couldn’t. Otherwise, it would violate his nature.

John McLarty: Exactly. The very basis of how the Bible teaches salvation is that, I mean, it’s such a profound issue, and it’s so key to tie it into the nature of God, which we’ve learned in the concepts. And if anybody isn’t familiar with those, they can hear various videos of the concepts on your podcast from kind of thumbnail versions to more in-depth. But the idea that God’s nature, he’s righteous, and he’s just, and he’s loving. Well, his righteousness is a standard of behavior, and we violate that because we’re created creatures. We’re imperfect, so we sin. 

And then justice requires a penalty, which the main idea of that is separation from God. And we’re just summarizing this, but then through his love, he made a provision for that through the payment for sin, an infinite payment, his satisfying his justice on the cross through the death of Jesus Christ. And then through that, we can have forgiveness of sins because the debt has been paid. So those ideas are so tied to his nature, that he’s righteous, just, and loving. Therefore, the whole plan of humans and our redemption, our need, and the solution to our need, and our redemption are tied into his nature, and his nature has never changed.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So it just stands to reason if salvation today is by grace through faith, a free gift, not of ourselves that lest  any man should boast, the idea that people could work for their salvation in the Old Testament, that they earned their salvation by works of the law, just doesn’t  add up, doesn’t make any sense because his nature has not changed.

Kimberly Faith: Right. It’s like expecting that the law of gravity which has existed since, I’m assuming since the creation of the world, would somehow have evolved or changed and there will be different requirement for someone who jumped off a building a thousand years ago versus today.

John McLarty: Right. Right.

Kimberly Faith:  Isn’t it interesting too? Something I was thinking about when you were talking was how there’s this thought that the law of Moses was something that had to be followed for salvation, but there’s this huge gap of time between before Moses, before the law was given to Moses, and afterwards. And like if keeping the sacrifices in the law was something that was so critical for salvation, it seems like we would have had that clearly written out somewhere before Moses. Right?

John McLarty:  Exactly. 

Kimberly Faith: But the people that lived before Moses I mean, Abraham, he knew, the Bible says that Abraham obeyed and kept the commandments and the statutes of the law. The Bible says that like Joseph, he knew that adultery was wrong before adultery was written down as a law. And so clearly they had the law in some form, but that wasn’t what they were depending upon for their reconciliation to God. And that’s what kind of what you’re saying?

John McLarty: Right. Right. And, you know, and we talked a lot about, the law of sin and death that just basic you know, Ezekiel talks about the soul that sinneth it shall die. And you go back to Adam and Eve. When they sinned, God said, if you eat of the fruit in that day, you shall surely die. Satan questioned that, but it did happen. And that was a spiritual death. They were separated from God. So the law of sin and death was true from the very beginning, Adam and Eve. And so that fundamental law, that if we sin, we’re separated from God. If we violate his righteousness, his justice kicks in. We’re separated from God, and then it needs a solution. But it was really interesting, Kim, when I looked at the reference to the law of sin and death, which is in Romans 8:2.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: There’s another law there. And this is very interesting because, in fact, the first law mentioned in Romans 8:2 is, for the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. So if the law of sin and death has always been in effect, and it has because of God’s nature, then the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, in other words, the solution to the law of sin and death, has always been in effect. And that goes back to the book of life and the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. God had the solution and it was based on a law, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Kimberly Faith: Well and also that reinforces the veracity of God. You know, you can take his word to the bank that if he says something’s going to happen, then it will happen. And, you know, just because God stands outside of time, which we can’t wrap our minds around. Right?

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: But it’s so interesting that, you know, we put so much value in having to see things and having to experience them in order to believe them when it comes to spiritual principles. But we do it all the time with physical things. I mean, we hop on a plane with a pilot we’ve never met and expect him to get us to Atlanta or whatever. But when it comes to you know, let’s take Abraham, for example, when he was looking forward and knew that, yes, his salvation had been secured. He had that promise, a sure promise that his salvation had been secured. Then we’re sitting here a couple thousand years after Christ’s death and saying, Yes, our salvation was secured. It’s the same thing. It’s still faith.

John McLarty: Right, and that really leads into, just to clarify the purpose of the podcast is that we are saying that salvation by grace through faith is true today and it’s always been true. But just to verify where we’re coming from, I’d like to look at and it’s very clear, but in Christendom there is confusion even today after the payment of Christ on the cross

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: that there’s still some works involved. So we’re not going to really argue that point in full, but I just wanted to throw out a couple of verses here. Ephesians  2:8-9 says, For by grace are you saved through faith; that not of yourselves is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. So we could spend a whole podcast. If somebody questions whether salvation today involves works, that would be a whole another podcast.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely.

John McLarty: I’ll also throw in Titus 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the holy ghost. So we’re just saying that’s clear in the New Testament.

Kimberly Faith: You know, and if you think about it in the Old Testament, it talks about in Isaiah that our righteousness is as filthy rags. Our best works. And that’s very consistent with this idea that salvation was by grace through faith in the Old Testament, just like in the New Testament. Because even the sacrifices of lambs and bulls and all the rituals, if that’s our best righteousness, it’s still as filthy rags in the sight of God who is the purest righteousness, right, the only righteousness.

John McLarty: Right. And in a study, if we’re like I said, we could have a whole podcast showing that we can’t even do a work of righteousness because it’s filthy rags. Even if we could, we couldn’t do it and pay an infinite payment because it would take us forever. And, you know, then our nature, we still would have the same nature. Our nature has to be changed. So this whole kind of bucket of reasons why salvation is clearly by grace through faith and not by works of righteousness. And we can come at that from different angles.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But in this podcast, we’re making the case that this has also been the truth from the very beginning.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And going back to,  our relationship with God is determined by his nature, which never changes. And so we should be able to see clear teachings in the Bible that salvation has always been by grace through faith. And so it’s very interesting and fascinating that it’s not hidden. This idea that salvation has always been by grace through faith isn’t, we’re not having to cherry pick just a few verses here and there.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And that’s what we want to do moving forward is just show this is abundantly clear.

Kimberly Faith: This is very exciting. This is very exciting. I’m excited to hear what the other things you have to say about this.

John McLarty: Well, I’ll just start off. We’ll start with some New Testament passages and then go into the Old Testament.

Kimberly Faith: Okay. Great.

John McLarty: Peter’s message in the book of Acts, and this is right after the Pentecost and then  the empowering of the Holy Spirit, and Peter was led by the Holy Spirit to to preach a message. And in Acts 3:20- 21, he says, “And he shall send Jesus Christ which was before preached unto you: whom the heavens must receive until the times of the restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all of his holy  prophets since the world began.” And so this message of the restitution of all things that salvation would come by an act of God not by works of righteousness has been preached since the world began.

Kimberly Faith: Wow. I don’t think I’ve ever caught that. You know, that was you know, in the context of really coming up with reasons and articulating why salvation has been by grace through faith since the foundation of the world. That particular passage, I never really thought about that in the context of covering the Old Testament as well. That’s remarkable.

John McLarty: And then I found this one this morning. It was in my memory banks. I was going back to studying this morning. And then I remembered Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, And when John was born and they said his name’s going to be John, Zacharias comes under the influence of the holy spirit and issues this prophecy in Luke 1: 68 -70, and this is really amazing. So this is Zacharias, father of John speaking. It says, “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he has visited and redeemed his people, and hath raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; as he spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets which have been since the world began.

Kimberly Faith: Wow.

John McLarty: So this is, you know, a holy spirit inspired prophecy, and he’s saying this is not something new. And it’s the idea that there’s going to be raised up a horn of salvation. And he’s going to redeem his people. Redeem is the whole idea of buying back redemption, paying for our sins.

Kimberly Faith: Right. It’s certainly not the idea that we are paying for our own sins when you’re talking about redemption. 

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. For sure.

John McLarty: That idea that has been spoken by the mouth of these holy prophets when you think of which have been since the world began. Well, when’s that? That’s Adam.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right.

John McLarty: So this message of restitution of all things, and that there would be a horn of salvation and there would be redemption goes all the way back to Adam. And we’re going to look at that in the Old Testament. It was there. It was clear.

Kimberly Faith: Let’s do it.

John McLarty: Yeah but before we go there, let’s look at this. This is very interesting because in Romans 4:3-8 we’ll be in the New Testament a little bit and then go back to the Old Testament. But it starts to refer to Old Testament figures. So in Romans 4, this is Paul writing. He says, for what saith the scripture? And this is amazing. Abraham, so before the law, right, before the nation of Israel, Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Then he says, now to him, that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace but of debt. So if Abraham worked for his salvation, it wouldn’t be by grace. It’d be by debt. But now to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Then he brings in David.

Kimberly Faith: Oh, yeah.

John McLarty: In verse six, even as David, so this is King David. So  see this is under the law. So before the law, Abraham. During the law, even as David also describes  the man into whom God imputed righteousness without works saying, blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the lord will not impute sin.

Kimberly Faith: Wow. 

John McLarty: So this is the idea of salvation by believing, by faith, through grace, includes both Abraham and David.

Kimberly Faith: That’s pretty clear.

John McLarty: It’s very clear.

Kimberly Faith: It’s very clear.

John McLarty: Then just before we move on, let’s just read a few more in Romans 4:20-25. It’s still talking about Abraham. It’s just so amazing. Verse 20, he staggered not at the promise of God, this is referring to Abraham, through unbelief, but was strong in faith giving glory to God. And this is a verse we use to what kind of belief brings salvation.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Not just believing there is a God, but verse 21 is key. And being fully persuaded that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And then therefore, it was imputed to him for righteousness. So how did Abraham get righteousness? By believing.

Kimberly Faith: Believing.

John McLarty: Trusting in God. And then it gets even better. Verse 23. Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but for us also to whom it shall be imputed. If we believe on him that raised up Jesus, our Lord, from the dead, who was delivered for our offenses and raised again for our justification.

Kimberly Faith: Wow.

John McLarty:  So just as it’s true for us

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But that it was true for Abraham, and that applies to us. Isn’t that amazing?

Kimberly Faith: That’s a really, really clear bridge.

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: I mean, that’s one of the clearest passages I think I’ve ever seen in both, you know, that ties together this common denominator of salvation by grace through faith in the Old Testament and the New Testament.

John McLarty: Yeah. And then another verse we’ll look at in the New Testament is Galatians 3:6. kind of says the same thing, but it’s just we’ll tie this into the righteousness of God. Galatians 3:6 says, even as Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. So just remember though, and we go back to the nature of God and the nature of man. God is righteous and we’re unrighteous. Right? We’re sinful. And then a verse most people know, Romans 3:10 says, As it is written, there’s none righteous, no, not one. So if Abraham is being called righteous, it’s God’s righteousness. It can’t be his own righteousness. And clearly, he got into the category of being called righteous by God through his faith, through belief.

Kimberly Faith: Right. That’s, you know, that’s really when you think about the Old Testament and the whole system of sacrificial, you know, the sacrifices and all the sin offerings and the wave offerings and all these offerings. And then, I mean, even in modern, you know, today, people, they have the human religions that have come up with this self sacrifice, right, in order to attain God’s righteousness. You know, you can obtain a degree of self righteousness, but our self righteousness should never be confused with God’s righteousness because God makes the rules because of his nature. Just like, I use this example when I teach the concepts.

If I want to visit the president in the White House, I have to abide by his rules, the secret service rules. I don’t even just walk into the White House. I’ll probably be arrested and thrown in jail. And it doesn’t matter what I think, what I feel, how good I think I am, and it’s not going to  happen. And why would we think that God is somehow lesser than the president and would somehow be okay? And I know this podcast is not about salvation by grace through faith, but I think the reason that people believe that people in the Old Testament were saved differently is because of the works thing. In other words, all the laws and the sacrifices and all those things that were set up in the Old Testament as a picture of the impossibility of salvation by works.

John McLarty: Right. Yeah. And that’s really important to just make the case, you know, that only God is righteous. And we could just go. We could look out a hundred verses that tell us God is righteous.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And he’s the only one. He’s the only one that’s righteous.

Kimberly Faith: Exactly.

John McLarty: So if a person is attributed righteousness like Abraham or Abel or anybody, it’s because of God. We’ve obtained God’s righteousness, and that’s through Christ. That’s through the payment of the cross, and that’s in God’s imputed righteousness into our born again souls.

Kimberly Faith: Which, yeah, when you think about the sacrifices in the Old Testament over and over and over again, even the the blood of the lamb on the doorposts, you know, in Passover, you know, there’s all this symbolism that that shows it is necessary to have a sacrifice to atone for sin.

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith:  And it’s never the person offering their own blood. You know? That’s never the picture that’s given.

John McLarty: Yeah. And that really brings up an interesting thought. There’s another couple of verses in the New Testament. And it talks about Abel. And it says by faith let me look at the, I’m finding the verse here.

Kimberly Faith: Is it Romans 3:10? Oh, no. Matthew. Matthew 23.

John McLarty: Matthew 23:35  says that upon you will come the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias. But it talks about Abel being righteous. And then there’s another verse that says, by faith, Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. God testifying of his gifts and by it being dead yet speaketh. I think that’s Hebrews 11:4.

Kimberly Faith: Ah, okay.

John McLarty: So in Hebrews 11:4 and Matthew 23:35, it talks about Abel being righteous. But when we understand that righteousness, like Abraham’s righteousness, can only come from God, that makes it really interesting. Why or how did Abel why was he righteous? And it just brings up this whole fascinating idea of Abel’s sacrifice. The sacrifice he made. And we’ll look at that when we go into the Old Testament.

Kimberly Faith: Well, you know, our works are supposed to be manifestations of our faith. In the Bible, in the New Testament, it talks about, Paul said, show me your works as proof of your faith. And faith is what, you know, enabled us to have the righteousness of God. And so are you going to get into that some more about why Abel’s sacrifice was righteous and Cain’s wasn’t?

John McLarty: Yeah. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Okay. Sorry.

John McLarty: We can do that. Let’s just wrap up in the New Testament.

Kimberly Faith:  Alright. 

John McLarty: Then we’ll switch to the Old Testament. Something really interesting occurred to me actually just this morning, and that’s if this idea of the death of Jesus on the cross was needed to allow for salvation by grace, that did not take place until the actual literal crucifixion.

So if people kind of think this, well, you know, it was by works in the Old Testament, but then Jesus paid the price in the New Testament and went to the cross and paid for our sins. Therefore the debt was paid and he could offer salvation by grace through faith. Well, it just struck me that Jesus’ entire ministry, he was telling people to believe in him 

Kimberly Faith: Oh, wow. 

John McLarty: Repeatedly. 

Kimberly Faith: Wow.

John McLarty: Even in Mark 1:15, Jesus said, and I love this verse. It’s the simplest gospel message ever. But Jesus said in Mark 1:15, the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent ye and believe the gospel. Now notice he didn’t say, but wait until after the payment has been made. Wait a little bit until I’ve been crucified. He says you can just believe right now. Then the famous verse, John 3:16, for God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. That’s right now. Then, I just love these verses.

Kimberly Faith: I’ve never thought about that. Honestly, that’s an excellent thought. That means in, you know, Jesus’ ministry where he’s telling people how to be reconciled to God, he never quantifies that. But, oh, you have to wait until I die and I am buried and resurrected before you can accept this gift of salvation. 

John McLarty:  Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: Also, how could it be he told the thief on the cross, today, you’ll be with me in paradise

John McLarty: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: If he had to

John McLarty: Very yeah. Good point.

Kimberly Faith: You know? Because then he’d be, you know, lying, really.

John McLarty: And then there’s verse after verse where people took Jesus up on his offer. John 12:42. And that’s nevertheless among the chief rulers, many believed on him. And then John 11:45, then many of the Jews came to see Mary. This is after Lazarus had been raised from the dead. And they saw the things which Jesus  did and believed on him. So, we’re not going to just hammer that, but we could find dozens of verses in the New Testament of people,  Jesus offering, believe on me for eternal life, and then people believing on him. And he never qualified it, like you said. But wait until the cross before you do it.

Kimberly Faith: Well and think about the repercussions of that. I mean, what about the disciples? You know? 

John Mclarty: Right. 

Kimberly Faith: I mean, were they saved after Jesus was raised from the dead? You know, because he hadn’t paid the price. He hadn’t made the sacrifice yet. And if the sacrifice could be taken advantage of during his lifetime, then it falls to reason it could have been applied before he even came to this earth.

John McLarty: Yes. Yeah. What’s the, you know, if the cross wasn’t required before salvation could be offered.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Wasn’t just his birth.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So it goes back to he was slain in the mind of God, slain from the foundation of the world. That was always available through faith.

Kimberly Faith: This thought about the availability of salvation when Jesus was alive.

John McLarty: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: By grace through faith, that is. That’s so powerful because you think about the way that the New Testament, the four gospels, is written in real time, you know, real time accounts of the life of Christ. You know, John is writing, you know, about the transaction of salvation among people. People believed. Right? And people were born again. People were saved. And if that didn’t happen at the time he said it happened, then the holy spirit wasn’t inspiring the scripture.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And that’s a huge deal. That’s huge, dad.

John McLarty: Yeah. He was making the offer in Mark 1:15, repent ye and believe the gospel. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: The invitation to the woman at the well and just on and on. He was saying, you know, believe in me and have everlasting life.

Kimberly Faith: Right. I am the way, the truth, the life, and no man comes to the father but by me. Well, that wasn’t. I will be the way.

John McLarty: Right. Another great one is John 12:46. I’m come a light into the world that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness. That was like, do it now.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty: He was like, this offer was offered and people believed. And just like you said, the disciples were saved.

Kimberly Faith:  Right. That I don’t know, dad.This is very exciting because, you know, this isn’t hard.

John McLarty:  It’s not hard. It’s not hidden.

Kimberly Faith: No. It’s not hidden. It’s actually really simple, and it makes so much sense.

John McLarty: So let’s move on to the Old Testament because this gets really, it just stays good. It is good and it stays good. So just going back into let’s just start with Genesis 3:15. And this whole idea of God’s going to take care of things, you know, Adam and Eve had just sinned. And, actually, God in Genesis 3:15, he’s talking to the devil, the serpent.

He said, I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed. It shall bruise thy head and thou shall bruise his heel. So that’s the whole idea of this, that God was going to make a provision that between thy seed and her seed, the seed of the serpent would bruise his heel, but Jesus, the seed of woman. Out of the seed of woman would come the savior. And so that’s just kind of a very early prophecy.

Then the next thing to look at, and I’ve just really reexamined this, I’d like to give credit to our pastor Brian. He’s kind of hinted that he’s really going to dig into this Cain and Abel thing. So I kind of preemptively looked at that. And the idea is this. The story of Cain and Abel, remembering the New Testament, Abel was called righteous in Hebrews and in Matthew. So Abel is righteous. Well, how do you get righteous? Well, only by being born again.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But note that this dialogue refers to the actual voice of God talking to, for sure, Cain. And then Abel is there. So this just really hit me that they are worshiping, who told them that they needed to offer these sacrifices? The idea of sacrifice. Well, it’s either God directly or their father Adam was instructing them.

So Abel is righteous, so let’s just follow this dialogue. It starts in Genesis 4:3-6. I’ll read that, then we’ll just discuss it a little. And in the process of time, it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground and brought an offering to the Lord. So he brought, like, some vegetables.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. So he sacrificed a lamb.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And it says that, and the Lord had respect unto Abel and his offering. But unto Cain and his offering, he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth and his countenance fell. And then this really struck me. Verse six, and the Lord said unto Cain. So God was speaking to them. This isn’t just a feeling they had. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: That Abel said, oh, my offering’s been accepted and Cain’s wasn’t. The Lord said unto Cain, why art thou wroth? Why is thy countenance fallen? So that’s just really striking to me. So this offering by Abel was a lamb slain. It shed blood. And that was acceptable unto the Lord. So even way back, this picture of Jesus Christ was being shown even as far back as the story of Cain and Abel. And God accepted Abel’s offering, which was a correct picture. So the whole idea, you go back to these verses that talk about, you know, that the message of the gospel, the message of redemption was preached by his holy prophets

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: As time began. Well, that’s Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel. So in other words, they knew. They knew that there would be the need of the sacrifice of the lamb of God.

Kimberly Faith: You know, it’s really interesting that God was so gracious to Cain. And, you know, Cain had perverted the gospel, the very essence of the gospel. And, you know, he had you know, I think about all the religious organizations today that are perverting the message of the gospel being by grace through faith, that from the fact that the lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world, not so we could work our way or do things our own way. We could bring the vegetables,

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: But so we could accept the free gift of reconciliation. And, you know, think about how I mean, I love this. I love that we have this from the beginning, Genesis four, you’ve got the gospel being presented through worship, through sacrificial worship.

John McLarty: Through worship. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: That’s amazing. 

John McLarty: They had to worship correctly to show the shed blood of the lamb of god.

Kimberly Faith: You know? And I know this is a little bit of a rabbit, but, you know, we like to chase rabbits on this podcast. But I think about how, you know, the easy religion today that says, well, come to God any way you want. Come, you know, come to the man upstairs and really fails to, really a failure to understand that God’s righteousness is something that should be revered. It’s something that someday we’re all going to face it, whether we want to or not, for who he is, him for who he is. You know? 

We can pretend that the presidential office isn’t what it is. But at some point, if we are going to come into the presence of the president, we are going to have to face him for who he is in his office. And I think that, you know, these easy believism, I’m going to work, I’m going to throw God a few dollars here, whatever it might be, That is really scary. The fact that God was so gracious to Cain, I think, is really I mean, it’s so remarkable that God was so maybe I’m just overemphasizing this, but kind of I’m just kind of seeing really how gracious God was even after he killed his brother. You know? 

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith:  Gave him the chance to live. You know?

John McLarty: Also something interesting, I’m just thinking about this, is you think of religions or when people hear about Christ and salvation and maybe they’re practicing works or doing their own way and they hear about Jesus, I just think about how Cain, when his way was rejected, he got so mad, he killed his brother.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Yeah.

John McLarty: So even though God forgave him, but there was this, you know, so sometimes you see this intensity, like, they’re killing Christians, like, in Syria and Iran. And why is there this hatred?

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty: Against Christians? And it’s their way of works for salvation or their way to God has been rejected.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: And then these Christians are going, like it’s Jesus. It’s grace through faith.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And why would you know, somebody with such a message of love and just show them the picture, you know, be the subject of this hatred? And so Cain even showed  this rage that God has not accepted his offering of vegetables.

Kimberly Faith: Well, I think it really just goes back to when we make God in our own image, then we become indignant and prideful. And even as Christians, do that. I mean, I’ve been guilty of that where I’ve you know, like, I remember the first time I learned that my purpose was to glorify God. And I really didn’t, I’d been born again, but I hadn’t really understood what it meant to have a deep and personal relationship with God. And my first reaction was, well, God must be a narcissist. You know? And that just is because I was ignorant of who God was to the degree that I understood that, hey, only Monet should receive the credit for his paintings. Only God should receive the credit for my life and all of creation. And I think when when you look at Romans chapter one, I know this is a little bit of rabbit, but and you think about the degree to which people become foolish and blind and darkened when they fail to acknowledge God for who he is after God has put the knowledge of himself in them, it makes sense because a fool says in their heart, there is no God.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: A blind person says there is no sun. Right? Because they have no sense of it.

John McLarty: Yeah. And even as Christians, that flesh, that anger can swell up. You know?

Kimberly Faith: Oh, yeah.

John McLarty: We shouldn’t be too prideful because,you know, I might have something scheduled for the day, and God says, no? You’re not going to do this. You’re going to go do that. And I can just immediately fight this little battle.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Like, oh, man. I wanted whatever. You know?

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. Yeah.

John McLarty: Drive my tractor today.

Kimberly Faith: Well, either he’s Lord or he’s not in our life.

John McLarty: Exactly. So we still fight the flesh, but it’s very interesting that Cain got so aggravated with his standard of worship being rejected. He killed his brother.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty:  But God still had some grace on him. Well, let’s look at some more Old Testament saints here.

Kimberly Faith: I love this.

John McLarty: Yeah. So how about Genesis 6:8? Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. So grace is unmerited favor. Grace is without works. Noah didn’t work for righteousness, his salvation. He found grace in the eyes of the Lord. And then I love Job. You know, people today, they don’t think the Old Testament saints knew these truths, but they’re so, it’s so clear. And, yeah, when we’re going to read a verse later in Isaiah, it is so clear. They knew. God was showing them about redemption. But here in Job 19:23- 26, and Job is feeling strongly about this. He says, oh, that my words were now written, oh, that they were printed in a book, that they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock forever. Interestingly enough, they are in the book. They’re in the word of God. But then look at verse 25. He says, for I know that my redeemer liveth. This is Job. Way way back. Says I know that my redeemer liveth and that he standeth the latter day upon the earth. In 26. And though after my skin, worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall also see God. So he used the word redeemer. Redeem, redemption, means buy back.

Kimberly Faith: And he uses it in the present tense.

John McLarty: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: It’s very interesting because you’re going back to the verse in Revelations where you when you started where it says slain from the foundation of the world. And Job is saying, my redeemer is alive today.

John McLarty: That’s interesting. Yes. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s so interesting. 

John McLarty: Hadn’t caught that. Yeah. My redeemer liveth.

Kimberly Faith: It’s not that he’s going to live someday, but, no, he lives today because I am redeemed today. Wow. That’s good, dad. That’s some good good stuff, dad.

John McLarty: Then another one we’ll go to is David. And, again, we could go on and on, but we’re just, and you could go to a lot of David’s writings

Kimberly Faith:  Right.

John McLarty: King David, the Psalms. But in Psalm 32:1, he says, blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. So he knew, even David, who was very involved in the law, he was the King of Israel.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: He knew ultimately when it came down to your relationship with God, you need your transgressions forgiven, sins to be covered. Then verse two, blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity and whose spirit there’s no guile. Then verse five, I acknowledge my sin unto thee and my iniquity I have not hid. I said I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord, and thou  forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Then at verse 11,  we’re skipping around a little bit, but, be glad in the Lord and rejoice, ye righteous. So we know that’s kind of a loaded term. How can people be righteous? Well, only through the grace of God, the imputed righteousness. Shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart. So King David was well aware of the need of God’s grace and mercy.

Kimberly Faith: Well, you know, in verse two where he says, the man unto whom the Lord imputes not iniquity and in whose spirit there is no guile. Again, that’s the present tense. So, you know, we know from studying the body, soul and spirit that when we’re born again, our soul and our spirit are made righteous. And, you know, even though our flesh still sins, none of that is imputed to us because we are made righteous and we know the righteousness of Christ does not contain any sin. Otherwise, it would not be righteous. So the way he’s even writing this is so indicative that he understands this principle that when you’re born again, when your soul and spirit are made alive in Christ, you can’t have any sin imputed to you. It’s impossible. So that’s really deep. I mean, I never have read this verse and kind of tied it in with, that’s what he was talking about. Yeah. That’s really good.

John McLarty: See, and then in the New Testament, when referring  back to David that the bible says in, Romans, blessed is the man, for what did David say? Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: This is where David’s saying that.

Kimberly Faith: Right. In Psalms. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That’s good.

John McLarty: Then another Old Testament passage many are already familiar with, but I’ve been doing a lot of reading. Do you want to  read one more Old Testament passage, Isaiah 53:3-6?

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. This is good.

John McLarty: So this is just the idea that the Old Testament folks, they knew very well what was going on with grace through faith and the need for a payment. 53:3-6

Kimberly Faith: Says, he is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, and we hid as it were our faces from him. He was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely, he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. Yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes, we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray and have turned everyone to his own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

John McLarty: Wow. Does it not say it right there?

Kimberly Faith: It just says it.

John McLarty: That is Jesus on the cross fully described in the Old Testament. Isaiah. And that whole passage, there’s more, but that’s just, you know, the kind of the heart of it.

Kimberly Faith: What’s interesting is even though this is kind of a prophetic verse about Jesus, the way it’s written, it’s almost like it’s in the past tense. You know, he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. It’s so interesting to me, and I haven’t thought about this in the Isaiah verse and the Psalms verse, how they’re inspired to write this in almost the past tense almost because it’s been from the foundation of the world. I just, you know, I know that God doesn’t. He operates outside of time and we don’t get that because he created time so we could understand things, at least I think he did. But this is so good because this is saying he was wounded for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities. In God’s mind, it’s like it had already happened as the Holy Spirit inspired Isaiah to write this. And for his purposes, for his salvation, for Isaiah’s salvation, it had already happened.

John McLarty: That is interesting. So, like, in verse four, it says, doesn’t say, surely he will bear our griefs and he will carry our sorrows.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Says he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. He was wounded for our transgressions. That really fits with what I’m explaining about from the foundation of the world.

Kimberly Faith: Because Isaiah you know, think about this. Like, let’s say you’re Isaiah and you’re, you know, you’re living before Christ, obviously, and you come to the realization that you need to be born again. You need to be saved. Well, you know, it seems like to think that God had already sealed the deal, would make it a lot easier, I mean, maybe to be born again because when you’re coming to the Lord for salvation, you know, he gives you repentance. He gives you the faith to believe. And from that perspective, if it’s presented like this is a done deal, my son, come on. Do you want this? Do you want my salvation? That may be why he wrote it that way, you know, inspired by the spirit.  I don’t know. Maybe I’m looking into it too much, but that makes a lot of sense given 

John McLarty: It does.  And just to, since this is, I mean, so clear in this study, for anybody that still might say, well, what about all  the sacrifices and the laws, Leviticus? I just go back to the New Testament. Hebrews 10:4 says, for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats, that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. So it was never, it was always just a picture. All the Old Testament sacrifices were just a picture of the sacrifice of Jesus, even going back to righteous Abel. And then, you know, the lamb, the doorpost at the Passover. Slay the lamb and put the blood on the doorpost, then the death angel will pass over. Then all of Leviticus, all the different kinds of sacrifices, they were all just a picture of the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world to take away the sins of the world.

Kimberly Faith: You know, it it kind of reminds me

John McLarty: Amazing.

Kimberly Faith: The verse in Revelations reminds me of First Peter One where you know, he’s talking about it because in the Old Testament, there’s no doubt that Judaism has strayed into the works based redemption just like it has in Christianity. Right? And he says, if you call on the father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourself throughout the time of your stay here in fear, knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things like gold and silver from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Jesus as a lamb without blemish and without spot, he indeed was ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through him believed in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory so that your faith and hope are in God.

John McLarty: That is a great verse. I actually had that in my written notes, and it just didn’t make it into these typed ones.

Kimberly Faith: I added it in my concept study when I was working on this concept workbook because to me, the idea that traditions and works and rituals and all the things that man can do have worked itself so almost indistinguishably into what people believe as the way to God. And thereare so many false religions, or I should say just non-biblical religions, that teach you to do something to reconcile yourself to the righteousness of God. I think this is such a pivotal message. I mean, this study is I mean, this podcast talking about how salvation has been that scarlet thread throughout history. Right? And it was God’s plan from the beginning. I think this is so important because we have so many people who are walking around still trying to work for their salvation and reconciliation to be in touch with God. And over and over and over again, God says, this was the plan we made because we knew you guys were going to choose something less than us 

John McLarty: Right. 

Kimberly Faith: From the beginning.

John McLarty: There’s also groups that go back and think, oh, we need to go back and fulfill a lot of the old testament laws and live this way and that way, you know, for salvation.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And this makes it so clear that all of that was just a picture.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: The lamb slain before the foundation of the world. And that salvation has always been by grace through faith, by believing in this lamb of God, which would take the sins of the world.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And, you know, if you’re listening to this podcast and you don’t know 100% that you have, received Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, that if you were to die, in the next minute and you don’t know 1000% that you would go to meet Jesus because you have been saved by grace, by his grace, by his immeasurable grace, and by putting your faith in him, and believing that he will,  he’s good on his word. I mean, he’s made this promise for thousands of years. We’ve just talked about this. Then I would encourage you to do that now. It’s not a special prayer. It’s a yielding. It’s a surrender. It’s a belief that you know God doesn’t lie when he says, come unto me, all ye who are burdened and heavy laden. I will give you rest for your soul. Your soul can have peace and experience the fruit of God’s spirit when you put your trust in him.  And so I just would encourage you. And if you need more explanation for this, go to our website. We have a whole section on the plan of salvation and understanding, the who, what, when, why, where, and how you can do it. And I would just encourage you. And, dad, thank you so much for this great explanation. I’m going to have to go back and listen to this podcast again and make some notes because you talked about some things today that I had never thought of.

John McLarty: Well, it’s really as simple as Mark 1:15. Repent ye and believe the gospel. It was true when Jesus said it. It’s true today, and it was true back with Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

John McLarty: And believe in the payment that Jesus Christ made on the cross for our sin, and that it did take that payment. But it’s by grace through faith 

Kimberly Faith: Yep. 

John McLarty: By true and true believing, trusting in him.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Because he’s the only way to the father. He’s the only way.

John McLarty:  Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: So thank you for all your hard work and research and presenting this today. I’m just really blown away. I hope everybody that’s listening to this podcast will also learn this because it’s so critical that we are the carriers of the truth. So again, thanks, dad. And I appreciate all the work you did to get ready for today’s podcast and presenting this, and I know the Lord’s going to bless it.

John McLarty: Well, Truth in Love, it’s good that it’s going out.

Kimberly Faith: Amen. Well, y’all have a good week.

Jacob Paul: You’ve been listening to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts, Kimberly Faith and John Mac. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us at GoFaithStrong.com.