Episode 27: Great White Throne & Judgment Seat of Christ: What’s The Difference?

Jacob Paul: Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts, Kimberly Faith and John Mac. The Truth in Love podcast seeks to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.

Kimberly Faith: Welcome back to the Truth in Love podcast. And, here with my co host, John McLarty, John Mac.

John McLarty: Well, it’s great to be here, Kim. We always have an interesting discussion when we get together.

Kimberly Faith: It’s always good. And just as you prayed, that the Holy Spirit will guide this discussion, I think it’s super important. On 10/28/2022, we published a devotional on gofaithstrong.com, and it was titled, Do you know the critical difference between the judgment seat of Christ and the great white throne judgment? And as I was looking at our website analytics, I had noticed that this devotional had more hits on it than almost any other devotional.

John McLarty: That’s interesting.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And it was like the Holy Spirit was just, like, saying, you know, this is an important topic. People are interested to understand the end. And, you know, no one likes to talk about judgment, but the fact is these two judgments are, one is one of dread, you know, really, one,  when we’ll talk about the great white throne judgment being for unbelievers for  people who have not been born again. And the judgment seat of Christ can either be viewed with dread if you haven’t lived loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, or it can be a really exciting thing. It’s like a time of reward. You know?

John McLarty: The judgment seat of Christ.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty:  Not the great white throne.

Kimberly Faith: Right. The judgment seat of Christ. Yeah.  Exactly. It’s so good to give people this truth. And for me, it was good for me to study this and to understand what I have to look forward to, but also give me a great, just a concern for the horror, the great horror that lies before someone who does not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And so having said that, if someone asked you just generally, you know, what does it mean to be a believer and thus escape the great white throne judgment, which is the judgment of unbelievers so that people understand the distinction?

John McLarty: Well, to me, it just goes back to our testimony, and becoming a believer was, finding Christ, finding the solution to our anxiety. And the Bible tells us that, the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So when we sin as, you know, beyond the age of accountability, so beyond a certain age, not infants. But

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: When we knew we were sinners. And, that  salvation experience happened to Lynn and I on the same day, my wife, now fifty years. So that was just transitional in our life, and it was finding to me, Kim, it’s so interesting because I did find heaven and escape hell,  the judgment, that final great white throne judgement.

Kimberly Faith:  Yeah.

John McLarty: But at the time, it was finding a relationship with God.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: But it resulted from being born again and accepting Jesus as my savior, asking forgiveness for my sins

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Due to the work he did on the cross

Kimberly Faith:  Right. 

John McLarty: And finding him, being born again and then, finding that relationship with him and thereby escaping this white throne of judgment where we’ll discuss the consequences of that.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. You know, I guess we probably should start by saying the great white throne judgment is a judgment of people who are spiritually dead, and the judgment seat of Christ is a judgment for those who have been born again. And, in the devotional, you know, I kind of broke it down a little bit what it meant to be an unbeliever or somebody who was not born again, somebody who’s not spiritually alive. You know, in our concept study in body, soul, and spirit, we talk about, you know, human design, how we can be a person who is physically alive, but spiritually dead, physically dead and spiritually dead, or physically dead and spiritually alive. Right?

Spiritually alive and physically alive. Right? There’s these four states. But we also talk about unbelievers being those who deny the existence of God, those who are working their way to heaven and seeking to be justified by their own works as opposed to by grace through faith, or are trusting in some combination of grace and works, which by definition is impossible

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: In order to justify themselves before God. Because it’s kind of like, you know, in the great white throne judgment, the issue before the court is going to be, are you born again or are you not?

John McLarty:  Right. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s the only issue.

John McLarty: Yeah. And I think we need to point out that we use the term believer. So we’re not talking about merely believing there is a God.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Because, I’ll tell you the majority of humans, all over the world believe there is a God, a creator. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: But we’re talking about believing in the sense of trusting. And back when I referred to asking Jesus to be my savior when I did that, I believed that he did it.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: And that’s trusting, that confidence.

Kimberly Faith:  Right. It’s the difference between knowing the chair exists and then sitting in the chair. Right?

John McLarty: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: And Jesus said that, you know, many are going to say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, having done all these things, even raise the dead or cast out devils or whatever. He says, I never knew you. So we want to make this clear that the delineation between whether you’re going to be standing before the great white throne judgment or the judgment of believers is whether this transaction with Jesus took place and you accepted the free gift of salvation by grace through faith.

John McLarty: Right. So when we use the term believers, we’re talking about those that have specifically asked Jesus to be their Savior and trusted that he did it.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: Believed in him, not just believing generically that a God exists.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: I think that’s important.

Kimberly Faith: I think that’s it’s

John McLarty: critically important.

Kimberly Faith: It’s critical because it is the difference between life and death literally. And we talk about, you know, both these judgments, we’re talking about they happen after our physical life is over. So that is what they have in common. Right?

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith:  But let’s just start with the great white throne judgment, which is the judgment of unbelievers. And let’s kind of get into the when, why, what, and where about this. First of all, do you want to read Daniel 12:1-2.

John McLarty: Sure. 

Kimberly Faith: Okay. 

John McLarty: So Daniel 12:1-2, at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people, and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was seen before. Since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Kimberly Faith: You know, we’re going to read also, in Revelations 20 because I think it’s important. A lot of people do not understand that the Old and the New Testament both preach the same gospel. They preach the same judgment. So I’m going to read Revelations 20:11-15.

John McLarty: Before you do that, let me just 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: I’ll just mention something that really gives me pause, and it’s everlasting contempt.  It’s everlasting. That separation from God due to sin, if it’s not resolved, it’s an everlasting separation from God. We don’t cease to exist.

Kimberly Faith:  Right. 

John McLarty: We’d live in that state forever.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And let’s just talk about that, and then we’ll read Revelation. You know, one of the devotionals we did several years ago is what is hell? You know? Because you hear all kinds of people have their opinions about what hell is. But you have hell on earth. You have hell forever. I’m going to be in hell with my buddies. All kinds of aspects of what people believe hell is. But the fact is, hell is separation from the presence of God, and, well, we can experience some of that on earth.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: You know? Even as Christians, when I feel like my walk with God is not where it should be, I’m experiencing a degree of hell. Now the difference, a huge difference is if you’re an unbeliever and you’ve never been born again and you are judged guilty at the Great White throne judgment, that’s going to be, like you said, forever and ever and ever. Your soul and spirit are going to live in hell, tortured by the absence of the presence of God forever and ever and ever.

John McLarty:  And that’s a horrible thought.

Kimberly Faith: It’s a horrible thought. In Revelations 20:11-15, it says, then I saw a great white throne and him who sat on it from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, talking about the spiritually dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works by the things which were written in the books, and the sea gave up the dead who were in it. And death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them, and they were judged each one according to his works. Then death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, and anyone not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. You know, the thing I immediately think of is the religions that are works based.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: I mean, your works will be judged, but you will always be found lacking because of the nature of God and his justice and righteousness and the way that is measured in the balance. Because the Bible says our righteousness is as filthy rags.

John McLarty: That’s Isaiah 64:6.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. So who is going to be judged?

John McLarty: All that have sinned.

Kimberly Faith: All, yeah, all the dead. Right?

John McLarty: Dead because sin causes death.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. And it’s so interesting how people who are Christians are not taught this human design, and you have to know human design to understand the Bible. Because if you don’t understand body, soul, and spirit, and the fact that each of them has a life and each of them has a death, then these verses don’t make sense. Is that fair?

John McLarty: Yeah. And that’s really important because you go back to Satan, attacking the word of God back in the garden where God said in the day that you eat, thou shalt surely die. And, Satan challenged that.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But they did eat and they did die. Well, they didn’t physically drop over.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty:  But they were separated from God.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And that happened actually spiritually, but then it was kind of symbolically, they left the garden, the presence of God. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes. 

John McLarty: So it was a picture of what had already happened spiritually. 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty:  So death, separation from God, but we can still be physically alive.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. 

John McLarty: And that needs to be clear. I think we’ve made it clear.

Kimberly Faith: And it is so important, to understand if, you know, for the listeners who heard last week’s podcast, an interview with Jeanne Champagne, she did a really, really good job explaining her hell before she found Jesus. Just this complete emptiness. She had tried so many things, and it was just driving her to just, I mean, to no end, to find the truth. And even when she found the truth, she resisted it because the world had such a hard hold on her. And it’s so incredible how much death permeates our culture. The culture of death. You know? Like, first of all, this is all there is to live it up. Right? And even when eternal life is presented to us, there are so many forces, spiritual warfare that works against us actually understanding and believing the truth.

John McLarty: I think something Jeanne would have experienced, and Lynn and I,  and all of us really in one way or another is that separation from God, there’s a hole. There’s something missing.  And then we try to fill that.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: Because we have anxiety that something’s missing, and then we try

Kimberly Faith: Everything.

John McLarty: Might be  the hippie lifestyle. It might be the rich jet set lifestyle.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: It might be the party lifestyle. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: But we’re trying to fill that anxiety.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. And so that anxiety is for the dead in Christ is going to last for eternity. And that is so tragic and does not need to happen. And then when is this judgment, the great white throne judgment?

John McLarty: It’s after the millennial reign. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. Which is kind of outside the scope of this discussion, but just kind of giving people perspective about when these things happen. And the record is kept in the book of life. Right? You know, it’s interesting. Some people say, well, is hell hotter for some people than others. Right? I don’t know the answer for sure to that question. I think the Bible does talk about worse condemnation for some than others. But, honestly, I don’t know. Do you know the answer to that?

John McLarty:  I think there’s indications that it’ll be worse for some people. I think there’s a reference of that. 

Kimberly Faith: Like Hitler 

John McLarty:  People that mistreated children. 

Kimberly Faith:  Right. 

John McLarty: It’s going to be worse than a millstone hung around their neck.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So it’s all separation from God, but, I think there could be degrees of hell. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. I don’t know the answer to that, but we know that we know one thing for sure, your works don’t get you to heaven. It’s only grace. 

John McLarty: And you don’t want to be there.

Kimberly Faith: Right. And what’s interesting about the great white throne judgment, your works aren’t really what’s being judged. It’s are you in the book of life or are you not? And then maybe the works are judged with regard to, you know, if you were Hitler, is there a worse place for you than if you were maybe, somebody who just didn’t ever understand the gospel but lived a pretty good life?

John McLarty: So it’s really simple. All of sin, sin brings spiritual death, and then the only remedy is to be born again

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: To have new life, and that’s from accepting Jesus Christ as our savior.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that I appreciate you saying that because when I explain the gospel to people, one of the biggest struggles and, actually, Jeanne had, in the last podcast, also talked about this, is whether we are going to give up our old lifestyle and what we’re going like, she explained the struggle. Actually, it was just so beautiful. If you haven’t heard the last podcast, you will not regret listening to it. It is just the most beautiful story, I think. Just testimony wise, one of the most powerful testimonies I ever heard. But she was describing how, on one hand, the Lord was pulling her and drawing her to him. On the other hand, she was afraid of what Dennis would think and whether he you know,  would be separated from her. If she decided to follow Christ, would that cause a big rift in their marriage? You know, kind of like what mom described a little bit in her testimony.

John McLarty: Fortunately for mom, we were saved the same day.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: She experienced that within a four to five hour period. My salvation was just a slam dunk.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right.

John McLarty: Just and fortunately for some reason, I fought it though,   I’m just glad I just repented

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: From, you know, within four or five hours after the holy spirit.

Kimberly Faith: She was describing this pulling of both ways. Right? And I think everybody experiences that. It’s like, do I really want to give up whatever you’re holding on to? Right?

Whether that be a spouse or whether that be a job or a lifestyle or, you know,  I know for me, it was basically giving up my own will because I thought, oh, God’s going to want me to do something I don’t want to do. You know? That was my big hang up. But she said there was this moment where the pulling stopped, and it was just a decision, just her and God. And it was like, God stopped the war and gave her a moment where she could surrender. Totally get that. That’s exactly what happened to me. And, you know, especially when people are praying for you. You know? I mean, Jeannie told me that later, she found out all these people at church had been praying for her salvation. You know? And so as Christians, as people who are born again, you know, this eternal condemnation, which is the result of the great one, everyone standing in front of the judge on the Great White Throne judgment is already condemned, and it’s going to be billions of people. Right.

John McLarty:  Right. No one is let off. No one’s case is

Kimberly Faith: No. You don’t win that case. 

John McLarty: Successful. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. You don’t win. Nobody wins that case because it was lost right after you died physically and without Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. So this is not the court you want to  end up in. This is not, and if you all are listening to this and you are not 100% certain that you know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, I would encourage you to. If you don’t understand  how to do that, if you have questions about that, we have a whole page on the gift of salvation on gofaithstrong.com. And we want, or reach out to us. You know? I mean, there’s people that we get emails from that want to know how to be saved, have questions, and reach out to us. This decision is an eternally significant decision.

John McLarty: Right. If you have any questions, get that settled.

Kimberly Faith: Get that settled now. And it’s not, it’s not like you know, if you know you’re a sinner, most people already know that. Right? They don’t like to hear about it, but most people know they’ve been wrong at least once in their life. Right?

John McLarty: Correct.

Kimberly Faith: And most people understand that if you are  listening to this website or listening to this podcast or if you’ve been in church, if you’ve heard the gospel that Jesus paid it all. He died on the cross to save us from the sin, and he paid for the sin of every human that has ever lived, ever will live, is living now for every sin they’ve ever committed and ever will commit. That just blows my mind, but he can do that because he’s God. And that he offers us this gift of salvation. He holds it out in his nail scarred hand and says, if you will accept this and accept me as Lord and Savior, the lordship part is just as important as the savior part.

John McLarty: True repentance.

Kimberly Faith: True repentance. I will save you forever.

John McLarty: And once that  happens, it is forever.

Kimberly Faith: It is forever.

John McLarty: It’s then and there forever.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: You now have eternal life.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. John 3:16.

John McLarty:  How it works. 

Kimberly Faith: You presently possess everlasting life. And if it’s not presently possessed, it never was everlasting to begin with. That’s just a very logical conclusion you can draw from that verse. Right? Am I saying that right? 

John McLarty: Right. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. So, we just, you know, we didn’t, we always never know what we’re going to  do on this podcast except we have a general idea, but that, this, the gospel’s important.

John McLarty: And that does kind of bring us into this next area, the judgement seat of Christ. So some would say, oh, now you have eternal life. It’s fixed.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So just go and live your life.

Kimberly Faith:  Right. 

John McLarty: No. Number one, our desires have changed. Our wants have changed.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: But then now as Christians, we have this great adventure, this great task, this great ministry ahead of us, and we’re actually judged at the judgment seat of Christ 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: For how well we do and not for our salvation.

Kimberly Faith: And that could be good. That can be something we look forward to.

John McLarty: It can.

Kimberly Faith: You know, I don’t want, the word judgment kind of conveys this dark foreboding kind of thought that we are, like, oh, we’re going to be judged. But, man, you know, if you do really good, then you want to be judged. You know? If you’re doing really well and I think about this verse in Second Corinthians 5:9-10, it says, Paul says, there we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be  well pleasing to Christ. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

John McLarty: Yeah. We’ve got to emphasize this is not for salvation anymore.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty: This is a judgment seat of Christ that Christians come before, and there, it’s kind of like ,and I hate to minimize it, but it’s kind of like a job evaluation.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: Like how well did you do?

Kimberly Faith: How well did you do? Right.

John McLarty: And then if you did well, you know, I think we’re going to explore this. But this to me, the simple take on this is when we face Jesus, do we want him to say good job.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: A good and faithful servant. Or I gave you so many opportunities

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And you didn’t lead this person to Christ or you did not do this or that, disappointment.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty:  Not our salvation on the line, but just how well we served the one who gave everything for us. 

Kimberly Faith: Gave  everything for us. And I think we have to, in order to do well in this race, you know, Paul talks about fighting the good fight, finishing the race, keeping the faith, and they’re being laid up for him a crown of righteousness, which the righteous judge will give to me on that day. Right? And that’s in, Second Timothy 4:7-8. When we think about our life, the life when we’re born again, the life that Christ gives us, it’s like a great treasure. Right? It’s a great treasure. If you have $5,000,000 in the bank and you never spend 1 dime, what good is the treasure?

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And the person who gave you the treasure, what kind of steward are you of that?

John McLarty: And there is a stewardship in this, you know, the parable of the steward. What did you do with what I gave you?

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. And as Christians, man, we’re all going to stand here before the judgment seat of Christ. So it’s all going to happen. It’s going to happen. Every believer. Right? And, you know, I don’t know about you, but I think the biggest challenge for me in learning to do well in this race, to be a good employer. I like the way you put an employee. It’s a good way to put it. I like that. Is to get God’s perspective on life.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: You know? Because when I have his perspective, then I’m thankful, then I’m pure in heart, then I see people the way he sees people. And I love him so much that I don’t want to do anything but serve him.

John McLarty: That’s really interesting because, I’ll chase that idea a little bit. We had a restaurant about two years. We talked about different types of  employees, and there are  the employees that just had kind of the employee mentality. They’re watching the clock. They saw a spill on the floor. They hope somebody else would see it and clean it up. And they usually didn’t last very long.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But if someone had what we call an owner’s mentality, they would show up five minutes early. They kind of had the owner’s perspective. If there’s a dirty spot on the floor, a spill, they would go clean it up because they wanted the business to be successful. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: And they immediately got, if they were like that for a week, they got a raise.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: We noticed that. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: And that’s interesting you said, the God, the owner perspective. God’s the creator owner.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty:  So to have his perspective.

Kimberly Faith: And it’s interesting because I’ll chase that rabbit a little bit too because it’s really very important to what we’re talking about. Most Christians, I think, have the hired servant thinking. You know, the first attitude you’re talking about. Like, oh, this isn’t really my job. I’m just here to make my money.

John McLarty: Right. 

Kimberly Faith: I’m using God. I’m using God to have a more comfortable life. Right? I’m using God. I’ve got my salvation secured. I’m going to do the bare minimum, but, really, I’m just trying to get by with as least amount of suffering as possible and as much enjoyment out of life. That’s such a loser perspective because you are the one who’s losing. You’re losing, and other people that you could be affecting for eternity are also

John mcLarty:  Right. 

Kimberly Faith: Maybe eternally losing.

John McLarty: Because God wants us to have an abundant life. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. 

John McLarty: Serving him, and it can be so wonderful. 

Kimberly Faith: Yes. Yes.

John McLarty: And if we go back to the world, we lose that.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. And, you know, whether we like it or not, you know, First Corinthians Three makes it clear that if we build on the foundation of Jesus Christ with, you know, wood, hay, straw, it’s going to be judged and burned up. But if we are building gold, silver, precious stones, when that fire tests our works, it’s going to endure. And, you know, the crazy thing is that we as stewards, we are stewards of the gospel. 

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: This is like having the cure for cancer and never sharing it with anybody.

John McLarty: I think it’s real key for the listeners to go to, that’s out of First Corinthians 3:11-15, and it talks about being judged for our works and receiving a reward or not, things being burned up. But it says if anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved. Yet though it’s by fire. So it just doubles down. We’re not talking about salvation.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But we are talking about this evaluation, this judgment seat of Christ, and rewards or not rewards. And we don’t know exactly what that looks like.

Kimberly Faith:  Right. 

John McLarty: But to me, one of, and people wonder about that and speculate, but to me, you just go back to just having Jesus come up to you. Maybe somebody you’ve led to the Lord.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. That’s what I think about. 

John McLarty: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Because, you know, the only thing that lasts forever on this whole earth is the souls of people. And to me, there’s no greater thought in my mind of a reward than even just one person coming up to me in heaven and saying, do you remember when you drove back two miles down the road and said, I didn’t, I was supposed to give you this tract and I didn’t do it, but God would not let me have peace until I gave this to you. I read that tract, and I got saved.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And I’m here today, and, actually, I led my children to the Lord. And you know? And then their life was impacted by your life. Man, that’s just that one degree difference in your path changed the trajectory of somebody else and many other people’s lives.

John McLarty: We have no idea. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. 

John McLarty: What that looked like

Kimberly Faith: That’s right.

John McLarty:  I think of the song. It’s Thank you for giving to the Lord.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.  I love that song

John McLarty:  About, you know, a Sunday school teacher.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: Child comes up, and you were my Sunday school teacher.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. Yeah. 

John McLarty:  That’s a good way to view this reward. It’s not like, oh, you can, you’re getting a lot of gold and silver and 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty:  A special room in the palace.

Kimberly Faith: Right. I mean and we don’t even, I mean, honestly,  God gives us physical examples so we can understand things. But when you think about the perspective that the only thing that lasts beyond this earth are the souls of people 

John McLarty: Right. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s what you want to  see. You know? And I also like, First Corinthians Four, where it talks about, that we are, servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. And it talks about how it’s required that we be found faithful. You know, Paul was saying, look. You think it’s a big deal for me to be judged in the human courts. Right? He said, I’m not even a judge myself because I don’t really know anything. Paul was so humble about what he actually knew. Right? And he says, I’m not justified by this, but he who judges me is the Lord. Therefore, judge nothing before the time until the Lord comes, who will bring both the light to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the heart. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

John McLarty: That’s great.

Kimberly Faith: Can you even fathom the God who created everything praising your works?

John McLarty: That’s out of First Corinthians Chapter Four. Yeah. I love the heart of Paul more and more. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: His heart toward God and others.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. I think I don’t know. I think that you know, when we talk about the judgment seat of Christ, you know, we don’t really know.  We know who’s going to be judged, right, all believers. It’s really not clear to me about when this judgment is. I think it’s obviously sometime after the rapture, but before the marriage supper of the lamb. Do you agree with that? 

John McLarty: Yes. It could be after the rapture and before the marriage supper of the lamb because I think it involves some positions in the millennial reign of Christ. We’re going to rule and reign with him.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: So you just think, well, what does that mean rule and reign?

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: And, you know, again, we’re not in it for that. Like, I want to be a ruler or something, but it says, you know, the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: So I just think it’s fun to speculate on that.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: But I think 

Kimberly Faith: There’s a lot we don’t know.

John McLarty: In the millennial reign, we’ll do something we really enjoy. Like I think you said you wanted to be an architect.

Kimberly Faith: I do. I think that would be fun..

John McLarty:  I’d like to be able to sing harmony.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. I think those will both be in heaven. It’s on some level. Right? We’re definitely not going to have any lawyers in heaven, I would think. Well, I would think not anyway.

John McLarty: We have the one judge. 

Kimberly Faith: That’s exactly right. Yeah. And, you know, the role of works in, the judgment of the believers is, you know, denial of rewards or, receipt of rewards. 

John McLarty: Right. 

Kimberly Faith: Right? And, again, I know we talk about we don’t really know what that looks like, except I do know. I do know without a doubt that I think the most amazing reward will be seeing people that you had a hand in, whether it was planting a seed or whether it was actually leading somebody to Christ or it was discipling somebody. You know, carrying out the great commission is multifaceted. We really just take great care and  comfort in just planting the seeds, doing what we’re supposed to do today and not worrying about, you know, being somebody’s holy spirit leading them to Christ. You know? And you know, I think that this is the court we want to end up in, but this you know? And what’s so incredible is that to get there, to get to this judgment, meaning the judgment of believers, we have one thing we have to do, and that is to receive Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

John McLarty: We have to be saved and have to have escaped the great white throne of judgment.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. That’s right. And, you know, the Bible, I’m glad we spent some time talking about salvation because I think you talked about earlier, you talked about how when we are saved, we don’t just have eternal life, but we also have an abundant life here. We don’t have the ability to do that without Him. And  for people who are listening to this podcast, if you are born again believer, but you are not, you are not experiencing the abundant life, I would just, you know, I get it. I have lived there. I have lived as a born again believer and been very restless and anxious and afraid and dissatisfied with my life. And that whole plethora of thinking and lifestyle was all because I had not learned to fall in love with God.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: You know, where, you know, the Bible says in Romans 5:1, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. That’s not just eternal peace. We also have peace right now and love and joy and goodness and kindness and gentleness and meekness when we incorporate the attitudes of Jesus, of being poor in spirit, merciful, meek, right, we hate sin.

John McLarty: The beatitudes.

Kimberly Faith: The beatitudes. Right? So, and then we don’t walk around like we feel condemned either because Romans 8:1 says there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.The problem is a lot of us as Christians, we are in Christ Jesus, meaning we are born again, but we walk around like we’re out of Christ Jesus. You know?

John McLarty: Well, it’s so interesting. You think about the judgment seat of Christ, and if the verse that says the first will be last and the last shall be first. And, you know, we’re supposed to be servant leaders.  If somebody listened to this, and goes, oh, great. I’m great. I want all these rewards in the judgment seat of Christ.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: We probably won’t get them. But if we just serve God  and I think of, we won’t read it, but in, First Corinthians 13, it’s, you know, though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, the love of God, it profiteth me nothing. So this service, this doing well in the judgment seat of Christ comes from a true heart.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

John McLarty: It comes from the beatitudes. It’d be perfect to study.

Kimberly Faith:  Right.

John McLarty: If you live the beatitudes the best we can

Kimberly Faith:  Right. 

John McLarty: You’ll do well in the judgment seat of Christ.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. I’m so glad you brought that up, dad, because I think that First Corinthians 13 obviously is very powerful. It talks about our motivation.

John McLarty: Right. Our motivation.

Kimberly Faith:  What we do. 

John McLarty: True. 

Kimberly Faith: And you know, it’s like in a marriage. If you are doing nice things for mom because you have to, it doesn’t mean the same. It’s you’re losing out, and she’s losing out. But if you’re doing nice things for mom because you love her and you want to serve her, then you both win. It’s the same with our relationship.

John McLarty: Great example. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: A marriage relationship. When you think of a wife that just is serving just because the husband’s so awful when he loses his temper. 

Kimberly Faith: Right.

John McLarty: That’s not, you know, a good motivation. 

Kimberly Faith: Well, it’s fear. 

John McLarty: It works both ways. It’s fear.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And the Bible says perfect love casts out fear, and God is perfect love.

John McLarty: So that’s not how we should be serving God out of fear.

Kimberly Faith: Well, and thank you for bringing up the beatitudes. We’ve studied this. We’ve got podcasts on it. We’ve coming out with a workbook on it. And the thing that you know, a lot of and the reason one of the reasons we’ve done this is because so many Christians have asked me, I’m sure you get the same thing, how do I fall in love with Jesus? How do I, you know, learn to sense his presence? Well, I mean, there’s the developing the mind of Christ through reading his word in, like, the concept study. Right? But when we understand the attitudes of Christ that he was teaching us and we practice those, like, you know, I swear every time I learn something new like this, like, you know, like our study on affliction we did, thankfulness and affliction, God just says, okay. Here’s a test now, you know, and I’m grateful, but, man, when you start learning how to apply being poor in spirit, which just means completely depends upon God, it’s a game changer. It’s an attitude changer.

John McLarty: Right.

Kimberly Faith: And it produces good works all around you. You don’t have to manufacture

John McLarty:  Don’t have to manufacture them. 

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. 

John McLarty: It comes out of the heart that’s close to the Lord wanting to serve him. 

Kimberly Faith: Right. 

John McLarty: And, you know, part of that’s being in his word and a good strong prayer life.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. Which is what we’re going to talk about in the next podcast, this thing called prayer that we’ve been practicing this year, and we’re going to bring mom in on that.

John McLarty: That will be great.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. So, we hope that this podcast, explaining the difference between the great white throne judgment and the judgment seat of Christ has been helpful to you, but we mostly want to encourage you that whichever, whether you’re born again or you’re not born again, man, you have so much to gain by being in Christ

John McLarty: Everything to gain.

Kimberly Faith: Everything to gain here and in eternity. Get that right today, and, thank you so much for joining us. Dad, thank you. That this was just a great discussion.

John McLarty:  It was great, Kim.

Kimberly Faith: Always great. Y’all have a great week.

Jacob Paul: You’ve been listening to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts, Kimberly Faith and John Mac. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us at gofaithstrong.com.