Episode 13 – The Best Gift Of Christmas Donna Stafford: Love Is Greater Than Hurricane Helena

Kimberly Faith: Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast with your host, Kimberly Faith. We seek to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love. Welcome back to the Truth in Love podcast. And I’m here in Bakersfield, North Carolina with Donna Stafford and my daughter, Grace, almost at Eveliz. And, we’re in the we’re here today to, highlight a, very special lady that that I have met through my daughter, Grace.

And, Donna, welcome to the show.

Donna Stafford: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. And so, one of the reasons I’ve said this, you’re very special. I’ve just met you maybe an hour ago, but I heard about you through Grace. And, we’re up here, Grace’s organization. What’s it called?

Carolina?

Grace Edwards: Carolina Care, stronger than the storm.

Kimberly Faith: So I happened to be in in North Carolina to visit, and, Grace was taking a a a load of of supplies up here to where the where hurricane Helene had hit. And I’m saying, Helene You are. Okay. And, of course, we’re just, you know, just awed by the damage and and and, of course, you’ve lived through this. And then just seeing your amazing spirit

Donna Stafford: Aw.

Kimberly Faith: I just was I was touched by the Lord to just put you on this podcast and and not necessarily to give glory to you, but to give glory to God through you.

Donna Stafford: Absolutely. He deserves it all.

Kimberly Faith: So Yeah. But your story is so compelling. And, and, Grace, could you just tell us how how did we get connected in this spot today?

Grace Edwards: Was it the Charlotte Observer? Charlotte Observer. Charlotte Observer interviewed you, and your story of the restaurant that had been the oldest restaurant in Bakersfield had been condemned recently. And so I I don’t know. Randomly was we’ve been trying to connect with people in smaller communities to get nice clothing to people in need.

And I saw your story, and then I went to your restaurant’s page, and there was a spot where you had put your number. And what’s the restaurant’s name? Oh, it’s Helen’s restaurant, which is kind of

Donna Stafford: Reigns with Helene. Helen and Helene.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I didn’t think about that.

Donna Stafford: Of all that. Yeah. I just thought that was Helene’s like Helen’s. Yeah. So,

Grace Edwards: anyway, I started reading about your story. And then when I saw that you put your phone number out there, I was like, wow.

Donna Stafford: I know. I don’t normally do that. It’s very strange that I did that. I never ever do that. I’m so careful with my number.

But And

Grace Edwards: and just so you know, I had a my husband advised me to not use my personal number, to use something to make a number. And so that’s what I’ve been that’s why I contacted you with, and you actually responded. We’ve had a lot of actually, it’s been more challenging to get close to people because of how much, I guess,

Kimberly Faith: there’s been some scammers.

Donna Stafford: I’ve used them a lot of scammers here. Clothing that has

Grace Edwards: gotten up here. So, anyway, I reached out to you and kind of explained what we were doing, and you showed interest. And

Kimberly Faith: So so thanks for that, Grace. I I and so through your organization, Carolina Cares, we’ve been connected. And I I I just wanna nutshell tell our listeners why I was so compelled, and then I want you to kinda tell your story.

Donna Stafford: Oh.

Kimberly Faith: So we came up here to deliver things for you to distribute that, Grace’s organization had had gathered. And, then I didn’t really know your story until last night. I got on Facebook and was looking at, the the story of your restaurant and just the destruction. And I thought, here is this lady that is had lost everything, and she’s serving as a distribution center with what she’s got left over to help people who have lost as much or more than she has. Did I get that right?

Donna Stafford: Well, there are some people who have lost lots more than I have, and I feel blessed to have. My home did flood. I did lose my business, and my home did flood, but it was only my basement and a couple of, rooms upstairs. But I’m so much more fortunate than so many other people here. And I’m I’m a single lady, so I don’t have small children at home or grandchildren that, were displaced.

So what I can do is offer what space that I have, my garage, for supplies and try to help other people as much as I can. And, I mean, people are helping me out too as the first 3 days, my car was, I couldn’t get my car out for 6 days. So I had a neighbor I had never met before who walked up here and checked on me, and we’ve become great friends. Oh. This morning before you guys got here, I have some trees down in my backyard, and I happened to hear a chainsaw.

And I walked outside, and there was a man up there chainsawing my trees. I have no idea who he is, but taking them off my property. And so it’s just a joint effort. I mean, you can feel God’s presence in the midst of all of this. And so

Kimberly Faith: You know, when we were driving up here, I was just blown away at still how many roads are still closed.

Donna Stafford: Oh, yeah. So I

Kimberly Faith: mean, this is 6 weeks after the storm. Right? And, and there’s still so many roads that are closed.

Grace Edwards: Well, I just wanna say one thing. In so with our organization, I’ve always made a point to speak to the person that we’ve connected with first and just kinda get a feel of what they’re doing, make sure that our resources we’re using them wisely. And I think I probably spoke to 4 or 5 people this week. And when I spoke to you, I was, like, very, very overwhelmed with the peacefulness that God brings in the storm.

Donna Stafford: Aw. And

Kimberly Faith: I I

Grace Edwards: I I actually shared it with my mom and, Jennifer’s been my, like she and I are bouncing ideas. So she and I are kind of running this organization thing or whatever you wanna call it. And I told her I said, there’s something different about this person, and I want to work with her. If you’re you know, I she and I

Kimberly Faith: Oh, well,

Donna Stafford: it’s so important.

Grace Edwards: But, yeah, it was like, in spite of losing I mean, you put everything into this business. And in spite of losing all that and having uncertainty, you could hear the peace of God through your voice, through the phone. I was like, this is somebody there are a whole lot of people I’ve talked to over the last month. This is one I wanna work with because

Kimberly Faith: Oh, that’s

Donna Stafford: That’s that’s almost makes me cry.

Kimberly Faith: Well, you know, that speaks loudly to God’s spirit. You know, his spirit is is is such a common denominator among believers that it doesn’t matter whether we’re connected by the telephone, by the email, by, you know, whatever mode, even in person, obviously, it’s it’s very powerful. But I felt that as well when I walked in and met you. I was like, even though it was Aw. Feeding you know, feeding Claire and all Yeah.

But it’s like, yeah, this is a common denominator. So so tell, tell everyone a little bit about your restaurant.

Donna Stafford: Okay. Well, I’m almost 60. I will be 60 shortly, and my mother will be 80 in just a few weeks. And, we grew up well, I grew up. My mother had 5 children, and 4 of those were boys.

And, my father is a minister, and so most of these years growing up were spent at motorcycle races or, car shows. My father restores old cars, so there were car shows and at church activities. And so

Kimberly Faith: When were you born again?

Donna Stafford: I was born in 1965.

Kimberly Faith: No. When were you born again? Oh, I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to get your age.

Donna Stafford: Oh, I my father’s been a minister since I was 5, so I’ve been in church as long as I can remember. I think I was probably 8 when I was saved and 9 when I was baptized.

Kimberly Faith: Wow. Okay. So you’ve got a long history of Jesus.

Donna Stafford: I do. I do. So

Kimberly Faith: And so you you moved into this area and opened this restaurant about a year ago. Right?

Donna Stafford: I yes. I’m I’m I moved away from this area and raised my children in Asheville, North Carolina, and then I came back here once my children were grown and, to be close to my parents as they got older and to, and so, like I said, I’ve been back maybe 7 or 8 years, and my mother and I had talked about doing this for years. This was really a big dream of hers. We had been, like I said, we’ve been talking about doing it. And then it just so happened that, the the only restaurant that we were really interested in doing was Helen’s Mhmm.

Because it’s such an iconic place in Bakersfield. And since 1996, it really hasn’t been back to its glory like it

Kimberly Faith: was since then. The the Helen, the the lady who the restaurant is named after, she’s she when did she die?

Donna Stafford: She died in 1996, and she was such a special, place person here in Bakersfield and and, Well well,

Kimberly Faith: she had she had a reputation kind of for her restaurant was a place for refuge, and she helped people. And She did. And and that that was something that you and your mom wanted to go ahead.

Donna Stafford: What we wanted to do. We wanted a place for the community. I know when Helen had the restaurant, she had several bars bar stools. It’s a big, huge counter, and there were, like, 10 bar stools there. And over the years, all these bar stools, they were bolted in the ground, and people said, there’s no way you’re gonna get those bar stools out.

There’s no way. They had been broken. The tops were broken. You you know, they weren’t you weren’t able to sit on them, but it was important for me to bring back that the bar stow counters. Mhmm.

And so we did go in and completely remodeled, but, I wanted that same small town the same feeling that it it it had when Helen and while her husband, Wally, were here.

Kimberly Faith: And you invested every penny just to

Donna Stafford: add penny.

Kimberly Faith: Into this. And and when you did that, that was a year ago.

Donna Stafford: It was a year ago. I had sold my home and and and so instead of buying a new home, I thought I can rent for a few years. I’m gonna put everything that I have into this restaurant, and, that’s what we did. When

Kimberly Faith: you did that, were you discouraged from getting flood insurance? Yes. Because everybody said flood insurance doesn’t help you out at all. There’s

Donna Stafford: no reason that’s ridiculous you’re gonna have to get flood insurance. Even if it floods, the flood’s not gonna pay for anything.

Kimberly Faith: So you you really, as far as, you know, me and, of course, the when when the the storm came well, tell everybody about how, I guess, it rained and flooded your basement first. Right?

Donna Stafford: It did. The rain began on we had severe thunderstorms on Wednesday night. And so, and I have a camera system set up in the restaurant so I could pull up the cameras and watch, and I could watch the freezers turning over and all my food flipping out and all of that down in the basement.

Kimberly Faith: I had to be devastated.

Donna Stafford: It was. And so then I, went in on Thursday morning, and there was mud and food, frozen food out on the floor. And so we closed on Thursday.

Kimberly Faith: And this was before the May 4th?

Donna Stafford: Before the hurricane hit. This was on, like I said, Wednesday night into Thursday. So we closed on Thursday and spent all day and evening getting mud up, mucking mud, and getting bagging up all the old food that or the food that had emptied out of all the freezers and the coolers. And so then, Friday’s when the hurricane hit.

Kimberly Faith: And it it it basically the the creek rose and basically took out all the substructure, basement, everything out of your

Donna Stafford: Everything. It took out the creek probably moved over a good 20 feet on my side, or, excuse me, yards, and then, was rushing so fast. They say that the water I think we had, like, 30 over between I’m not sure how much this area had, but the whole county had between 30 50 inches depending on what where you were at of rainfall all of a sudden.

Kimberly Faith: Wow.

Donna Stafford: And so they say that the force of the water was stronger than, the water going over Niagara Falls. Wow.

Kimberly Faith: And that’s what what basically, I mean, your your restaurant now, all that’s left of it is is basically on a very precarious structure.

Donna Stafford: Very yes.

Kimberly Faith: It’s been condemned.

Donna Stafford: Yes. It’s been condemned. It took everything out, took a now the creek, what’s left of the concrete that was underneath that was holding up the restaurant, there’s all of that’s broken. So the restaurant’s just hanging on by a thread.

Kimberly Faith: So and you had, of course, a lot of nostalgic pictures and and a lot of things in there, and you were really barely able to get those things out by the by the I guess, the county had condemned it or the city. And, and and so you’ve had not only just you’ve had a process of of grief you’ve gone through.

Donna Stafford: I have. I think I’m still somewhat grieving. It’s getting easier. I think I told you earlier when we talked, there was a period there for about two and a half weeks that I really had a hard time. I wasn’t sure that I was even gonna be okay.

Yeah. I, the 1st 2 weeks, I was just trying to get help, and there was no nobody had any answers. And so many roads were closed, and the it was it was just chaos the 1st 2 weeks. And then after that

Kimberly Faith: How long was it till you had electricity?

Donna Stafford: I think it was 19 days.

Kimberly Faith: Wow. And and were you all were the roads most of the roads cut cut and may did they were you cut off from the public? Yes. The public? I should say not the public, but the rest of the the rest of the state?

Yes.

Donna Stafford: Yes. There were, the road there’s a a road that connects McDowell County and Mitchell County, and it’s a long winding mountain road.

Kimberly Faith: And We drove up that road, I think.

Donna Stafford: Yes. Well, that road was closed because there were so many mountain slides. Gosh. And then the road going into going to from connecting Mitchell County to Johnson City, Tennessee, that road was there were landslides and trees down and all that, so that road was closed. There were just yeah.

We were closed off everywhere. And then, gas was a problem. You couldn’t find gas. And so, of course, you know, food. Everybody’s food spoiled.

So there was I had no charcoal here. I had no way of heating any water. You know, you couldn’t flush your toilets. You couldn’t get on the phone and call anyone. Right.

Nobody had phone service. Nobody had cell service. I think it was the I didn’t see anybody for 3 days, and then my like, because I couldn’t get my car out even if I could. And then my, one of my brothers came and checked on me, and he had went by the restaurant and checked me pictures from the restaurant.

Kimberly Faith: Oh, but that was just heartbreaking. Yeah. And And how many employees did you have?

Donna Stafford: At the time of the flood, I think I was down to about 14. We were gonna the school had started back. We had let some people go

Kimberly Faith: Right.

Donna Stafford: Start back in school. So we were down to about 14 employees when this hit.

Kimberly Faith: And and your employees, so I I actually met one of your former employees earlier today and and our 4 Courtney. And her 4 children and and or 3 of her 4 children. And, and she’s she’s just now found another job and Yes. And able to they’re getting back on their feet.

Donna Stafford: Yes. She starts next week.

Kimberly Faith: So So we we had kind of segued off of the conversation we started, but when you when you made a dis you were discouraged, I guess, from buying the flood insurance, that has really put you in a in a situation where you’ve pretty much are just gonna break even after

Donna Stafford: It is. I got I did get the cheapest insurance that, I could get at the time because I was putting everything pouring everything into the restaurant. I mean, I had to have, you know, money for vendors, money for employees Right. And and other insurances. I have four insurance total policies.

Of course, none of them are gonna pay out except for the flood insurance now, which will only pay for, the rest of my mortgage.

Kimberly Faith: I I bring that up because I’m just trying to put myself in in your shoes, and I I guess I want the people who are listening to this to kind of put themselves in your shoes because I I really think what I’m seeing here, not not just in the stories you’ve told, but in your life, this is a really a living, breathing person who has let the Lord just just take you in this situation that would be a complete devastating loss for for anybody that was experiencing it. And and and you you’re you’re like a living picture of the fruits of God’s spirit that are going you know, you can I can just see it? The Lord has poured love and joy and peace into you, and you’re just pointed out for people around you. And that just I I’m just astonished. I’m astonished at at that.

And that is, I know you give glory to God for that, but that’s a real story. And and what an inspiration, you know, we’re we’re we’re gonna you know, this obviously is gonna air during the month of December and and at a time when we’re thinking about giving and Christmas. And I just think this portrays the real story of Christmas in a way that is so so genuine.

Donna Stafford: Well, thank you. I think, hopefully, this year, everybody will see Christmas in a different way.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah.

Donna Stafford: I hope this year, it is about Christ and his love, and and and the biggest gift of all is is to love each other. And I and and I I’m gonna cry. I really hope that this year that that’s what Christmas is about. It’s not about I mean, it’s not about the the

Kimberly Faith: Commercialization. Exactly. Right. Right.

Donna Stafford: It’s it’s about love.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And it’s about the gift of love. Gift of love. Right.

Donna Stafford: And if and if, you know, after all of this, all that we’ve been through and all the destruction and all the death and all of the homelessness and and and and and all all the things that we’re going through now, now is when Christ should shine. Yeah. Now is the time that we should shine. And and I hope this year for Christmas that that, you know, we all are humbled and that we do see what it’s really about. It’s not about all the shining lights, and it’s about the light that you carry.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. The light that we carry because Jesus Christ came and sacrificed everything for his enemies, for for us. Yeah. And and then he has given us, all the things that money can’t buy to carry around in our in our heart. And this is I just love your story because it’s such a it’s such a beautiful story.

You you know, when at the end, when you have the bottom, when you have nothing, you have everything because you have the Lord. Absolutely. And and if if all of us could learn to to be inspired by people that are in your situation and who have, you know, had great tragedy, but yet carry on as if life is full

Donna Stafford: Well and rich. Because we have people like you and Grace, your daughter, who are so kind and gracious to reach out and help us. You know? I mean, there’s so many we were we for the 1st week, you know, there’s really no help coming in at first, and nobody had food. Nobody had water.

Somebody you know? A lot of people still didn’t have homes. I mean, there were still trees and rain coming down. And but thank thankfully, you know, God reached out to to people like you who came to our rescue and brought us food and and amenities.

Kimberly Faith: And and What about your what about your you mentioned earlier that there are still people who are living in tents.

Donna Stafford: Yes. One of my employees is still living in a tent.

Kimberly Faith: And there are still people who are grieving the love of loss. I mean, there are people who lost their lives right around Yes. People you know. Yes. And, I mean, have they they there’s just so much more to do.

Oh, it’s gonna take years. And what what an opportunity. What an opportunity is I

Grace Edwards: wanna tag on to that a little bit. Something you and I talked about was that I told you we’ve been through a hard time the last 2 years. Something you and I have talked about is how even in your hard times, you can get so much back when you’re getting your eyes off of yourself and your own problems and focusing on helping other people. Absolutely. And those blessings, I mean, we’ve had this community that’s come together who a lot of the ladies that I spoke with or who reached out to me were like, I wanna help, but we can’t.

We don’t have the money to give, or we can’t drive up there and help. I said, okay. Let’s Let’s find something we can do to help where we’re at. And that’s exactly what you’ve done. It’s the story of stone soup.

It’s whatever it

Donna Stafford: is. Right.

Grace Edwards: You have figured out a way to help

Kimberly Faith: where you’re at. And and it’s really again, it goes back to I think we put God in a box when he belongs out free free and roaming. Right.

Donna Stafford: You know? He’s not just there when things are good. He’s also and it’s harder to see when things are gloomy and chaotic. It’s it’s a lot harder to reach down and and and praise God sometimes. I think some people are they get angry at God.

Mhmm. And that’s a hard thing, and that’s when you really have to pray and say, God, you know, please help me. You know? I need you. And that’s you know, even if you can’t say those words out loud when you’re when you’re crying that out to God, I need you.

Understand. Yeah.

Grace Edwards: Understanding that you can something I learned is you can take the hard stuff to him, and in doing that, you’re exercising your faith. And then you remind yourself of the importance of or you remind yourself of the ways that he’s been faithful.

Donna Stafford: Yes. Sorry.

Kimberly Faith: I think I I really think that it it when we have the hard time it’s kinda like when you’re at a cave. Right? Just a tiny little light in a cave illuminates much greater than a tiny little light if you’re out in the sun.

Donna Stafford: Right.

Kimberly Faith: Right? And so I feel like that’s that’s what I see when I’m here with you. I see this light that’s shining so brightly because the the the hard stuff and the darkness is so dark. You know? And you’re seeing that too with your neighbors and your friends.

And and, I mean, I love meeting what was the name of your employee again? Courtney. Courtney and her children. Just, you know, I I just I think that when we give, not out of the abundance, but at we give from the very bottom of the barrel of everything we’ve got. We get to experience something that is is so far beyond gen eve even the word generosity.

It’s like we’re deep in the stream of what God’s given us. Mhmm. And we get to dip into that and say here.

Donna Stafford: I think it makes your heart bigger too when you give. I think it it’s on both ends, the receiver and the giver. I think it’s just the the unspoken love. I think it’s love without words.

Kimberly Faith: I think that’s beautiful. And, so, Donna, if if you were to say, what would be the greatest gift that you could give and receive this Christmas season? What would you what would you want to tell our listeners?

Donna Stafford: To love each other, to appreciate each other, to appreciate, to appreciate the kindness in in other people, but most of all, to be thankful to God. Mhmm. Yeah. Most of all, to be thankful that he was born and to remember that’s what Christmas is about, is to remember that he was born and why he was born. And You

Kimberly Faith: know, you you said that to love each other. And what I what I what I thought about is it shouldn’t take a hurricane No. To to draw us into this this loving I mean, love is selflessness, and it shouldn’t take a hurricane or a tornado or a flood or a fire to draw us into the deeper well of love in Christ. And and I I love that that you you know, that’s kind of what you’re saying, really. Right.

And and we have people all around us that are hurting. You know, anxiety is through the roof. People are you know?

Donna Stafford: There yeah. There’s and and even before the hurricane hit, I mean, the hurricane has caused so much traumatic stress for so many adults and children alike. You know, school just started back for these kids yesterday, and, it’s been really hard on them. Mhmm. So, like I said, as adults, we’re still traumatized.

I can’t imagine these children, and so many of them, have lost everything. My nephew, my brother’s home was flooded, and so he lost all of his clothes. He’s he just turned 16 in September

Kimberly Faith: Oh, god.

Donna Stafford: 3 weeks before the hurricane hit. And as a 16 year old, he’s lost everything he has. So,

Kimberly Faith: have are there a lot of families in this county? I guess, 3 county area is pretty small. Right?

Donna Stafford: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: And, is this is this kind of been a lot of loss of life along with, their personal possessions, or is it mostly

Donna Stafford: There has been a lot of loss of life. There are still some lives unaccounted for. There’s still some missing people, and that’s been difficult because there’s piles and piles and piles of rubble, trees, cars, refrigerators, everything in in this rubble, and so they have to dig through the rubble.

Kimberly Faith: So I wanna go back again and and just, you know, ask this question again about what what is it that you as somebody who has been through and are still going through a very traumatic experience would encourage everyone that’s listening to this podcast to do that would make Christmas better for everybody?

Donna Stafford: I think that we’ve learned through all of this that stuff is just stuff. Mhmm. And I think made hopefully, not only us who have been affected by this hurricane, but those who are helping us out, realize that the spirit of Christmas is really about the spirit of love and that we’ve got enough stuff. We can all help each other. I mean, you came and helped me today.

Kimberly Faith: Or you helped me more, I think.

Donna Stafford: But I was gonna say, I think we have formed a friendship and a love and a bond.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. It was already there.

Donna Stafford: I think so too. Yeah. And so and that’s what it’s about. It’s about love and friendship and giving and receiving, and and, I mean, we’re giving each other something. We’re giving each other friendship.

We’re giving each other, trust and love and Peace and peace. Joy, and and that’s what it’s about. It’s you know, so many people have lost so much stuff. It’s just stuff.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

Donna Stafford: It’s just stuff.

Kimberly Faith: You know, what what you said, and and we’ll kinda wrap up with this. It reminds me so much of what we’ve talked about in our beatitude series, and that is when we develop the attitudes that Jesus taught us to have, being completely dependent upon him, understanding that that we have nothing without God, and that when we develop those attitudes in Christ because we are our spirit is is rich and alive in his spirit, then we have so much that, in other words, so much of the things that matter. We have so much peace. We have so much joy. We have so much love.

We have kindness, compassion, forgiveness, all those things because we received them from God, and they can never be taken away from us, but they’re ours to give. Whereas the things of this world, our resources, our money, our jobs, all those things are they’re not gonna be taken away from I mean, they’re not gonna be taken with us. Exactly. And they’re they’re we’re never going to hold on to those in any way that’s going to be satisfying. Right.

And the only way those things any of those things are even satisfying to to us is when they’re being used for God’s glory. Absolutely. And so I I just your story to me is so important because it’s such a beautiful picture of what Jesus is trying to teach us in the beatitudes. Right? If we love mercy, if we are so humbled by the presence of the spirit of the Lord that we just wanna dwell in his presence and share that with everyone else, then all of our resources become these great tools instead of our gods.

And god becomes where he’s supposed to be on the throne. And by putting him on the throne, then everything else that we have just becomes a great gift that we can give to others.

Donna Stafford: Absolutely. That’s perfectly perfectly said.

Kimberly Faith: It’s just and it’s well, I’ve just been so inspired.

Donna Stafford: Oh.

Kimberly Faith: I just really have. And and thank you.

Donna Stafford: Likewise. Thank you.

Kimberly Faith: Thank you for your story and for sharing it with everyone.

Donna Stafford: And thank you and your daughter for being so kind. Your and your daughter’s group for being so kind and gracious and donating to so many of us up here, bringing us some warm clothes and some food and some, hygiene products and and all the things that we need to survive this winter up here.

Kimberly Faith: Well, we we just, I I just can’t believe that we that god ordained this moment that we got to meet, and I I feel like I have a new, a sister in Christ. It’s an old soul like I am.

Donna Stafford: I know. Absolutely.

Kimberly Faith: We just got to meet through this great, this great thing called Helene. Yes.

Donna Stafford: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: And, it’s been been so nice to meet you. And nice isn’t a great word to use, but it’s been fantastic

Donna Stafford: to meet you.

Kimberly Faith: Fantastic. And, I thank you for being on the show.

Donna Stafford: Thank you.

Kimberly Faith: Absolutely. This has been the this is the truth in love podcast. And, we’re so glad you joined us for, this series on the gifts of Christmas, the best gifts of Christmas. Until next time. Hallelujah.

You have been listening to the truth in love podcast with your host, Kimberly Faith. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us atgofacestrong.com. Hallelujah,

Donna Stafford: you rescued me.