Episode 40: Antwan J Eaves: From Drum Major To Discipleship Maker

Jacob Paul: Welcome to the truth and love podcast with your host, Kimberly Faith. The truth and love podcast seeks to present God’s timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.

Kimberly Faith: Welcome back to the truth and love podcast. Podcast. I am beyond I always say this, but I feel like I feel like I’m beyond thrilled to be here with Antwan J. Eaves, brother in Christ whom I’ve known for how long, Antwan? Have we known each other?

Antwan J. Eaves: It’s been at least twelve, maybe fourteen years actually. Yeah. About fourteen years.

Kimberly Faith: How did we meet? I I’m trying to remember.

Antwan J. Eaves: We met way back when I actually so I say fourteen years very lightly because I’m sure we probably ran into each other a lot longer a a long time ago, really. I went to school. I went to elementary school with John year

Kimberly Faith: My youngest son.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yep. Youngest son, year older than him. So I’m sure we ran into each other back when I attended that school. I think from pre k to maybe or grade.

Kimberly Faith: But we

Antwan J. Eaves: reconnected in about 02/2009, 02/2010. So it’s actually been a it’s been quite quite a while. And I actually became bestest friends with John. And we

Kimberly Faith: This was at Waynesville High School. Right?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. Waynesville High School. I became best friends with John and you opened up your home to myself and all our friend group and we would have awesome nights of cooking and just learning and fellowship and

Kimberly Faith: Well, yeah, we had the the cooking with the teens. Right? Gourmet cooking with the teens. And we had to pick a very controversial question and no cell phones and have civilized debate.

Antwan J. Eaves: No cell phones. Exactly. Civilized debate. We

Kimberly Faith: learned No cell phones or no pie. Yeah.

Antwan J. Eaves: We learned how to cook just extraordinary things. I mean, we just took our time and really had great fellowship. We look forward to that. And it felt like it was once a week. I’m not sure if it was that often, but it felt like it was at least once a week that we were coming over to your home and it it was a beautiful thing.

And you said that a long time friend, you were a you became someone that was a mother figure for me. So definitely honored to be here. Oh,

Kimberly Faith: I’m so blessed and so honored to be another mother figure for you because that is, when you see what is the bible says? I have no greater joy than to see my children serving the Lord. I’m paraphrasing, but you give me great joy, Antoine. Arise me at the the movie The Shack where where where papa says, I I I love you. I love you.

You know, you are very you are most special to me. I’m getting the words wrong, but anyway

Antwan J. Eaves: You know what’s crazy about that? I haven’t seen the Shack and it’s been on my my list to watch, but I haven’t seen it yet.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. Oh, she says, especially love you. You know, it’s and I don’t mean to to digress, but this is such a great topic. I I was sick, you know, we we saw each other at the wedding, we connected at John’s wedding, and then I was sick for a week. And, you know, when you’re sick and you can’t do anything, can’t even think because your brain is so foggy, I was like, Lord, I can’t even pray.

I can’t read my bible. I’m just I’m vegetable right now. And God was saying, yeah, that’s exactly where I want you. And I want you to rewatch some of these movies to remind you how much I love you and how much I need to control your life. So one of the movies I rewatched was The Shack.

And even though there’s some doctrinal things that I’m not really quite sure about, the overwhelming message is God especially loves each one of us. If the way that God is a mother to us and a father to us, it’s so rich. It’s so rich. So when you say that, I feel very honored that I get to be part of your earthly family and of course your spiritual family.

Antwan J. Eaves: Absolutely. Absolutely. We just picked up where we left off and it’s been a beautiful it’s been a beautiful relationship and connection thus far.

Kimberly Faith: It has.

Antwan J. Eaves: It’s been amazing.

Kimberly Faith: And so you were called to preach at a pretty young age?

Antwan J. Eaves: Absolutely. Very interesting. Interesting when maybe six or seven years old, my parents would say that I would be in the room, my bedroom, instead of playing with toys, I’d be preaching against or to a wall.

Kimberly Faith: Love that.

Antwan J. Eaves: And, they’re like, oh

Kimberly Faith: God, they didn’t record some of those

Antwan J. Eaves: sermons, Exactly. They’re like, oh, he’s gonna be a pastor one day. And it it was also interesting because every time they would say that, I never really embraced it. I I would fight against it. I’m like, no, I’m not gonna be pastor.

I felt like that was embarrassing. Everyone else is gonna be maybe a lawyer or a police officer or these great things, business owners, and he’s gonna be a pastor one day. And and I began to really wrestle with that. It wasn’t the thing that was in. I I especially for people my age, especially at that time.

And it was definitely a battle, but going and growing a little older, I really accepted the call to preach the gospel and I accepted Jesus really about the same time.

Kimberly Faith: Really? I did not know that.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. It’s because really you can grow up in religion, but as far as relationship, it’s a completely different approach. And I grew up, I went to a Christian school and I I believed in I believed in God my whole life for sure. But as far as far as accepting him as my personal Lord and savior, it really didn’t happen until about the age of 16, 17 years old. And I’ve done the things, you know, a long time ago to try to fix myself up and to be the best version of myself.

And I always wanted to go to church when I was younger. Right around the time of grade, I went through some very tough things. My parents, my mom remarried a couple times. And at that point, I was actually going to church with my stepfather and my mother. And around that time in grade, they got a divorce and I I moved away with an an uncle and probably for a period of about five years, I didn’t have that level of involvement in church that I did growing up.

My mom was since remarried and we were going to church occasionally, but I didn’t have that same level of involvement. And it wasn’t really until high school that the Lord really began to really get a hold of my heart.

Kimberly Faith: And you had moved back to Waynesville at that point?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. I moved back to Waynesville, I lived all over. Growing up military brat is what they say. Moved all over, moved to Belgium and Texas and all these places and moved back to great old Waynesville, Missouri. And at that point, I remember that’s why they say train up a child in the way that they should go.

I remember some of the things that we would do going to church and I decided that I want that for myself. So I started going to a couple a few different churches in the area And I would go and I was still in that same religious mindset of like, I I just I I wanna go serve. I wanna be in church, but I didn’t really wanna walk with God at that point. It was something that was it was an experience for me. I wanted the Sunday morning experience, but I didn’t

Kimberly Faith: Isn’t interesting? And I I’m gonna interrupt you, but this is such an important point. Yeah. I remember, you know, coming out of a hippie lifestyle as a kid, like same thing, moving around nomadic lifestyle, then getting into a church, a bible believing, New Testament church where I learned the gospel and I was wanting to clean myself up. I wanted that life.

And I would ask the Lord to say, made several professions of faith where would pray, Lord, please save me and I’ll be good.

Antwan J. Eaves: I’ll be good.

Kimberly Faith: I’ll be good. And I didn’t realize that I was trying to save myself using grace and works and it doesn’t work that way.

Antwan J. Eaves: It doesn’t.

Kimberly Faith: And it wasn’t until I fully surrendered, and I was like 22 years old. I’ll never forget it. I just was like, Lord, I’m tired. I’m tired. I was standing in church and I I had messed up so many things in my life already.

And I was just like, I’m just tired. Tired of playing this game. I’m tired of hypocrisy. I’m tired of trying. I can’t do this.

And it was then he said, exactly. Just surrender. And I was like, I don’t wanna be this person anymore. I want you to take over. And that was the time.

That was when I was born again. Sorry, I didn’t want you, but it’s just No.

Antwan J. Eaves: It’s interesting because even at that time of my life, I felt like before I could fully surrender to God, I had to clean myself up. I had to make myself perfect. The reality is no one takes a shower before they take a shower.

Kimberly Faith: Or cleans their house before they their house cleaner comes.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like, no one no one does that and it’s and it’s simply because hey, I’ve I’ve seen some people do the house cleaning thing.

I just wanted to straighten up just a little bit. Just a little bit. But it’s interesting because until I figured out that I am in true need of a relationship with the savior, instead of I just wanna go experience this to feel good about the things that I’m doing or the things that I’m in, I I really need a relationship. And no matter how broken I am, I know that he is a good father that I can trust.

Kimberly Faith: Right.

Antwan J. Eaves: And so around that time, I began going exploring church churches, and one of my great friends in high school invited me to her church. And when I went to this church, I was like, man, this is very different. This is very different than what I grew up around and what I grew up with. And one thing that I noticed was the the strict religious things that I was used to seeing, I was not seeing in this place. It was almost like there was a freedom that was happening And it very it very much so made me very curious because I’m like, okay, if God is not looking for these these strict rules and these regulations, like, what is it that he’s looking for?

And I began to sing at this point in my life. There was a youth worship team that I joined. And I joined this worship team before I began to accept him as my lord and savior. I just joined the worship team. And I will never forget, we were at a rehearsal and I remember feeling the presence of God.

And for those who are listening, if you’ve never felt the genuine presence of God, it was such a peace. And I can’t describe it. It was just such a peace. And I’m like, wow. I’ve been at church for a very long time, but what I’m feeling right now, it’s it’s the best thing that I’ve ever felt in my life.

It was a peace that felt like it was, for lack of better words, pregnant with answers and purpose. Like, everything in here is sufficient. Like, everything that I need in my life is found in the presence of God.

Kimberly Faith: It’s like total freedom from anxiety. Right?

Antwan J. Eaves: It is. No matter what you came in or to the presence dealing with, like, you cannot leave out of the presence of God the same. And I was in this worship rehearsal, feeling the presence of God, and someone began to pray with me this night. And they just begin to share the father’s heart and they also begin to kinda relate to me in a way that I didn’t understand because I’m like, wow, how could they know some of these things that I’ve been dealing with? And how could they be able to speak to these things?

Like, haven’t told anyone about this. I’ve been very good at hiding in my How could they know this? Like, this has to be God. This has to be the presence of God. And when I tell you from that moment of my life, actually feeling the genuine presence of God, I didn’t I didn’t become perfect overnight, still not perfect.

I didn’t I didn’t stay in that place and say, man, I need to experience the same thing over and over. What happened was I began to be very curious about this God. Like, this was a different presentation of God for me.

Kimberly Faith: So is that is that when you were born again, when you received Jesus as your savior?

Antwan J. Eaves: It was at that moment, that night. I I accepted him as my personal Lord and savior. Wow. And this

Kimberly Faith: is an amazing testimony. This is one of my favorite parts about this podcast.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: I get to hear people’s stories about how Jesus came into their heart.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Because everyone has a different story and your story is gonna resonate with people that my story doesn’t. Yeah. Know, go ahead, sorry. I just

Antwan J. Eaves: get excited. That’s really unique because like, I know people are curious on how you can grow up around church and grow up around like God and still not make him your Lord and savior. It’s because some people try to get caught up in performance as it pertains to just being in God. And we know about him, but like, do we really try to get to know him? Right?

It’s something to know He

Kimberly Faith: need our performance.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: He needs our heart. All God wants is our heart in a relationship, then he can then then the performance becomes about him. He does the performance.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. He he literally does. Yeah. And really trying to posture yourself into walking with God on a daily basis, it is transformational. You go from knowing about him to knowing him.

You go from talking about him to wanting to speak to him. Right? It is transforming.

Kimberly Faith: I like to use the example of of, you know, if if you have a if your favorite hero is like Tim Tebow or somebody, right, And all you know about him is what you read about him. You don’t have relationship with Tim Tebow, but if you can call him up and say, hey Tim, hey, let’s go work out together or hey, you know, whatever your thing is, then that’s completely different. That’s a completely different dynamic. And why we settle for knowing about God but not knowing God is I think the reason the difference for me was fear. I didn’t know God was good like He is good and that He’s the Father of all goodness because, you know, the enemy does a great job of camouflaging that or sabotaging God’s, you know, who God is.

But it’s you and me, like the person that was praying with you, opened that door for you to see the power of God. Right?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: And and that he’s your father.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. I

Kimberly Faith: love that. I love that. Go ahead. Sorry.

Antwan J. Eaves: And and it’s like the Lord took me to do three stages. I I went and the stage was really to get to know him. And then that stage was I begin to discover my purpose. Like, what is my purpose in God? I I That was

Kimberly Faith: all those three stages, without all that night or are you talking about over progressive time?

Antwan J. Eaves: Over progressive time. I I would say over the next year. It was very quickly. But a lot of people, you know, when you’re meeting Christians or people who want to be Christian or people who have had an experience with Christianity, one of the common questions that is asked is, are you saved? And I and I begin to ask people recently, like, what is when you say are you saved, what are you asking?

And I also begin to go a little deeper. Are you saved for something or are you saved from something? And I and I begin to have the revelation in that period of my life that I was not just saved from something. I wasn’t just saved from hell or an eternity for from for hell. I was saved for something as well.

I was saved to go make a difference. I

Kimberly Faith: saved to go I love that.

Antwan J. Eaves: Make disciples. Oh,

Kimberly Faith: yes. I love that, Antoine. That’s like your cup half empty or half full. Right? Yeah.

No. The cup is overflowing actually.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. Yeah. Like, we’re not just saved from something, we’re also saved for something. Glorious. Yeah.

And one thing also, not to go on attendant here, but I begin to reread Genesis this week and I begin to look at when man was given dominion and he was given dominion, he was given power, he was given authority. But right before man was given dominion, it began to describe how everything that God created was designed to produce after its own kind. The seed begin to produce, the trees begin to produce, everything produced. And when the Lord saves us, he saves us not just from hell, but he does save us so that we can produce. And it is in our nature.

It is in our design to produce. And and when I say produce, I really believe our genuine call is to go produce, to go help make disciples, to go spread the gospel. And when he saved me, it was a very quick process. I believe some people feel like when we’re saved, we have to go through this thirty year thing of getting to know God and learning all the hermeneutics, homiletics, all the things about the text, all the things about the Bible. But the Lord took me through such a fast process that people that knew me a week prior to God saving me for and from something, they were like, is this fake?

This cannot be genuine because I was just with Antoine, and this is not what he was doing. And now he’s talking about God. Now he’s going to church. Now he’s saying all these things. Is this genuine or is this a fad?

Is this just something that’s temporary? You

Kimberly Faith: know, that is we truly become new creatures in Christ and it’s so amazing. It’s kinda like, I like to use this example where if I had the cure for cancer and somebody was in stage four, you know, full on multi organ cancer, you know, prognosis. I’m not saying that right. And I said, here’s the cure. You couldn’t shut them up.

If they were cured from cancer, man, they would not be you would not be able to shut them up. They have a new life. And I think you’re 1000% correct. When you are truly born again, you can’t shut up about it. You may not know much, but you can tell about what happened to you.

You can say, Jesus set me free. I don’t know how to explain it to you, but you know, I got somebody who can.

Antwan J. Eaves: Exactly. Yeah. And I think it’s very interesting. In John chapter three, you know, we get one of the most famous scriptures in text, John three sixteen, God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son. But right before we get there, Jesus is having a conversation with Nicodemus.

And it’s so interesting about that is he was this staunch religious leader. And he’s giving him something so transformational. He’s talking to him not just about what this newfound identity is, but he’s talking to him about, Nicodemus, if you had been there to really experience what I’ve experienced, you would understand. And I think the unique part about that is Jesus began to speak about his experience and what he’s experienced in this dispensation of time and how his experience was the thing that could take someone from religion to relationship. Yes.

And I believe for me, that’s so important that not only do I tell people about God, but I tell people about the experience, the testimony, if you will, of how the Lord has brought me out. And I think it was so important in that text that Jesus began to have that dialogue with Nicodemus because now we get to the place where he says, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. But before we got there, he began to talk to him about some of the experiences that Right.

Kimberly Faith: You know, that’s the that is actually the reference in scripture in New Testament of using the term born again. Yes. And it’s what really interesting how Jesus said to Nicodemus, are you a teacher, like one of the top top dogs in the religious circles, and you don’t understand this? He and and, you know, because it was taught in the old testament, born again, being born again wasn’t some new concept.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: The old testament people were looking forward. If you look at Hebrews 11, right, and he in the book of Ezekiel talks about, I will give you a new heart, a heart a heart of flesh. I’ll give you I’ll take your heart of stone, you know? That’s being born again. And so Jesus, by walking him through something he understands, we understand birth, and then bam, the gospel.

Yes. For God so loved. Right? Yeah. That’s why we started this podcast.

Yeah. Because everyone has who’s had experience where they’ve been born again, has this thing they can share. You know, when I disciple people and they’re like, well, I don’t know how to share the gospel. So, well, tell me what happened to you.

Antwan J. Eaves: There it is. There it is.

Kimberly Faith: We’ll talk about the technical stuff. I’ll teach you the technical things because you do need to know those. Study to show yourself approved, right? And and that’s part of discipleship. So I I I love that you said earlier that you were when you were born again, you were also simultaneously called to preach.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. So tell us about that. It was such a fast turnaround that, like, it began to make my head spin. Here I was coming from a place, and I can just kinda share these few pieces, coming from a place where I was living a true college experience in high school. And when I say that, I just had so much freedom that I was able to just run ramp, run wild, do whatever I wanted

Kimberly Faith: to do. I remember that actually because I was like, Antoine, do you need to come you need to stay with us? I mean, do you have a home?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. Like, where where are your parents? Where are your parents? You know, John said something to me the other day and it really showed me the power of God. I saw John maybe a week ago at the wedding and he said, you know, Antoine, he said, we used to be together about every day and I probably only seen your parents twice in in life.

And I’m like, that’s so true. And I I really did. I really did live a life of freedom. And I know some people may be listening to this and you’re like, well, that all that happened in high school, but I was very mature for my age, but also I had a lot of freedom. I mean, I had this

Kimberly Faith: you were very mature for your age. I’ll never forget when you asked, okay, can I use your kitchen to make a birthday dinner for Maya? Do you remember that?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: And and my only instruction was, I don’t want you frying chicken in my my kitchen. You use the porch and you’re like, no problem.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. We’re not gonna get the oil and the grease and all in the house, so we definitely went on the porch. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: But yeah. No. You use that but you use that freedom. What’s really remarkable is that, you know, you’re whatever wherever your parents were at that point, it it it’s interesting how God took what they gave you, that freedom Yeah. And used it for his glory because you were so ready to grow.

So you immersed yourself in not just building yourself up as an individual because you did. I was so impressed that you were drum major at such a young age.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: And I know that’s what your book’s about, and and I’m not trying to get jump into that early, but I was so impressed with your character because I I could see that God had changed you and was running your life. Now you were crashing into walls a little bit just like we all do. Right? For sure. But you had that heart of surrender and just was so power in my life, it was so powerful to see that because you were so young.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: So anyway, go ahead. I didn’t mean to interrupt, but I

Antwan J. Eaves: just Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Think the commentary off of my perspective, a mother’s perspective

Antwan J. Eaves: It definitely does help. Yeah. It adds to the conversation because, I mean, sometimes I look back and I’m like, what in the world was going on in my head? What was going on around me? Because I really felt like what the Lord was doing, it was like a Damascus experience.

It was very quick. You know? Saul’s on the road of Damascus, and now he’s changed. He’s transformed. He’s touched.

And right after that, like, a whole lot of things happened very rapidly. And that’s what it was for me. I I believe I looked up and people that knew that I was living a college experience in high school because of this freedom that I had, they’re now looking and they’re like, man, his his cravings are changing. His appetite is changing. The way that he speaks has changed drastically.

I was nominated to be the most changed in my school for a few years.

Kimberly Faith: I did not know that. Yeah. Amazing. What a great testimony.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. And right right around that same time, I literally begin to have such a strong burden to be able to not just share my testimony with people, but to share the gospel. I felt like I heard around that same time, the Lord just, like, speaking to my heart about, preaching and sharing the gospel. And around that time, I began praying even in I remember in yearbook class, there was a young man named Luis. And this is when, you know, I’m now walking in relationship with Christ and he was someone that was always happy.

He was always jolly And he wasn’t a believer, but he was always happy. And I I began to share my newfound relationship with Luis, and I remember small things were would be happening. Luis had a major headache one day, a migraine. I said, Luis, can I just can I pray with you? And I began to pray with Luis and seeing him go from this frown and pain to just smiling right after, you know, this prayer.

I’m like, wait a minute. Did God just take away this headache from Luis? Did God just take this away? And I begin to be more comfortable sharing in my faith and here’s where life begins to get really crazy for me. So as I’m sharing with Luis these newfound things, at this point in my life, I’m no longer an athlete.

I used to play basketball, you know, way back when. No longer an athlete, but I knew there was a fellowship of Christian athletes at the school. And I’m like, okay. I have to find some place to have some sort of Christian community in the school. And fellowship of Christian athletes at that point was just barely holding on.

I believe they had maybe two or three members. And I joined, and they made me the president very quickly. And I didn’t know much about athletics at that point. You know? As you mentioned, I was in band.

I was a drum major. And they made me the president. And I began to actually do small bible studies with this group, and we begin to go Waynesville High School built this new lecture hall. We begin to go and have little mini services of me getting up and teaching to these young the high schoolers. Also, at the same time, I mentioned that we were singing at this church that I was going to.

And at that point, I was like, you know what? Like, what if we started a nice, like, young gospel choir at this school? And so within a couple months of me accepting him as my lord and savior, I’m like, okay, let’s do this fellowship with Christian athletes. I became the president. I’m speaking weekly at high in the high school.

I start this gospel choir and now, you know, people are coming to this gospel choir and I’m leading that. I’m leading also another nonprofit organization through Kiwanis International called Key Club. So I’m the president of that and doing the weekly fellowship of Christian athletes. And then this is where the Lord just begin to blow my name in the wind. A couple of the teachers from the school invited me to preach at their church and I had never preached anywhere as far as the church is concerned.

And I was invited to preach at Faith Baptist in Waynesville. And I preached one of my sermons ever and it was called mistakenly identified but purposely chosen. Oh, wow. And I preached there and from there, the Lord just began to open up door after door. Right after that, I began to travel to different places in Saint Louis.

It was like word-of-mouth happened of this young guy that’s preaching and churches begin to invite me and open up the door for me to come preach at their church. And Let

Kimberly Faith: me let me ask you a question. At this point, so you had been you had a good foundation in biblical knowledge from a child. Right? I mean, because you had gone to Christian school, you’ve gone to churches that I’m assuming taught, you know, taught you the bible stories, taught you principles, that you knew how to explain salvation. It wasn’t like you just, you know, you got saved and you had zero biblical background.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. If

Kimberly Faith: you had knowledge, what was missing was the relational part and the Holy Spirit empowerment.

Antwan J. Eaves: Exactly. Yeah. I had good general knowledge of the foundations of Christianity. I knew about salvation and what that looked like.

Kimberly Faith: The reason I the reason I bring that up is because I think there’s a there’s a lot of people who I I think get saved.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: And they think I’m gonna go preach or I can go teach and they don’t have they have zero foundation to do that.

Antwan J. Eaves: And that’s very dangerous as well as well.

Kimberly Faith: Very dangerous. It’s it’s the way people get caught up into cults and all kinds of, unfortunately, they burn themselves out. They may have gotten saved but they’re like that that seed that was, you know, that just never grew.

Antwan J. Eaves: And You know, and to even speak to that, and we’ll get into that conversation a little later, you can have a genuine call from God to do amazing things. But just as important as the call is, the what is important. What did God call me to do is extremely important. But I found out that the what is the most important, but the most important thing is the when. Because the right thing done and the wrong timing could be very dangerous.

Could be very deadly.

Kimberly Faith: Kinda what your book’s about a little bit. Right?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. The right thing done and the wrong timing is very bad. I’ll never forget, there’s a restaurant, Popeyes, they had this great chicken sandwich that people were lined up for for miles. I mean, they were like, this chicken sandwich is the best chicken sandwich ever. And this was several years ago.

And I remember that for, like, three or four days, I think it went viral on social media, people were standing in line for this Popeye’s sandwich. But it was in such demand that they couldn’t keep up with the demand. They were out of this product for months on end. They couldn’t restock it. And when it came back, it didn’t even come back with the same quality because they figured out that the demand outweighed the the their capacity.

And it’s very important for people to realize even spiritually that the Lord can call us to do great things, but we have to be able to ask him, like, when do you want me to do this? And what things do I need to do to be prepared to do this?

Kimberly Faith: And it needs to be his work, you know? Yeah. When I’m feeling overwhelmed with, you know, all the things that God has me doing, I think sometimes he just allows me to get sick. And then I’m flat on my back and I’m like, okay, God, wait, wait, I’m remembering this is your life, not mine.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: Your way, not mine. And it’s a great reset.

Antwan J. Eaves: Because sometimes he just needs us to be still.

Kimberly Faith: He does.

Antwan J. Eaves: Be still and know that I am.

Kimberly Faith: Those of us who are very busy. Yes.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. And yeah, so I had a lot of knowledge, grew up, like I said, in that Christian school. I learned a lot there, learned a lot from watching sermons and things and and the Lord really began to give me platforms. And one of the things that I also learned was I begin to allow God to open up doors, but then there were some doors that I walked into that I wasn’t ready for as well. And all at that same time, the Lord is using me and I’m walking in doors that he opened, I’m walking in doors that I opened.

And the Lord began to really give me a great measure responsibility. It was like, at this point, I had this reverential fear of God, I don’t wanna misrepresent you. I don’t wanna misrepresent you.

Kimberly Faith: That’s so rich. That’s so rich.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. That would keep me up. It would really keep me up because I felt like at this point, if I I do this really quickly, this could be a fad and this could be something that people say, yeah, you remember when he used to preach the gospel and remember when he did this and he was on fire for God, but now look at him. And that was such a And

Kimberly Faith: you know, you think about too that reverential fear, you think about the time that before you got saved, where there was a confusion in your mind about religion with relationship. Yeah. All the potentially all the people that were misrepresenting that to you. Yes. And I don’t blame my lack of surrender to God prior to the age of 22 on anybody else, I at all.

I don’t mean that that way. But, man, when you have a reverential fear, I like that. I like the way you put that, of representing God directly. You know, one of the reasons we call this truth in love is because the truth without love is cruel. Love without truth is cruel.

And God did both. Jesus said, am the way, the truth. Right? And he also said, the Bible also says God is love.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: You gotta have both. If you don’t, you’re not repping God. Yeah. So go ahead. Sorry.

Antwan J. Eaves: And so many people start off really well, when they they get they accept salvation and they start off on fire for God. But it’s easy along the way to start off building the kingdom and then end up building a kingdom. And some people end up building a kingdom, you know, maybe it’s themselves, their platform, their thing.

Kimberly Faith: Right. Right. Which is why Jesus said we have to make disciples.

Antwan J. Eaves: Exactly. Yeah. And we we see that so much in the text. We see that so much in the Bible where people start off really great, but then things happen. And God has a way of getting us back on track.

It’s his grace, it’s his love, it’s his mercy.

Kimberly Faith: Even like the great patriarchs like, you know, King Solomon, King David, you know, they started out great. They had trials, they attained greatness as kings, but then at the end of their lives, it wasn’t so great.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Built a kingdom, but it wasn’t the kingdom.

Antwan J. Eaves: You’re right. You’re right.

Kimberly Faith: I love that, Antoine. I love that. You’re you’re just you’re you’re so gifted. I love talking with you. I think we spent, what, three or four hours at the wedding talking.

Yeah. Best conversations. Go ahead.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. And and it’s and it it makes you really want to not sometimes the applause can be very dangerous. It makes you not want to be so in love with applause. And as a young leader, especially as people seeing that I was gifted in communication and gifted in sharing the gospel, I had to make sure that I grounded myself and surrounded myself with people who weren’t not necessarily impressed with my gift. Because I knew that if I became so enamored on the applause, that that’s what I would do it for.

And when the applause stops, in which it it already did, right? There I’ve been through many seasons where there was no applause, but when it stops, are you still going to continually give God a yes? And and I had to learn how to do that.

Kimberly Faith: You know, that’s that’s a that’s more sorry. That’s one of the the principles of discipleship that I teach in this study called the foundation the bible of truths, the basic bible truths is is if we don’t understand that our purpose is to glorify God. Yes. Then if we lose focus, that is so pivotal in everything that like, when somebody comes to me in about their broken marriage or something, I always go back to your purpose is to glorify God and no one can keep you from doing that.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: And and your your wife can’t keep you from doing that. Only you can keep you from doing that. That’s such a stalwart truth that when, like you said, the applause stops, it doesn’t matter because you’re not in it for the applause.

Antwan J. Eaves: Thank you.

Kimberly Faith: Glorifying God. Yeah. And and that’s I mean, that I love that you, at such a young age, recognize that.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. And it it really is making yourself of no reputation, being willing to lose your reputation for the sake of the gospel, for the sake of his purpose, for the sake of his mission. And I I really believe that’s one of the dangers of young leadership is because when you are young, when you’re an anomaly like that, people will celebrate you. You will become it’s so easy to fall in love with the applause and it’s natural.

Kimberly Faith: Yes.

Antwan J. Eaves: Not something that’s weird, it’s natural. And you have to learn how to trust and depend on God no matter what. And so the Lord took me through a process of trusting and depending and relying on him. And there are certain things. We mentioned that how dangerous how dangerous it is to go before you’re ready.

We mentioned that. It’s also dangerous to wait too long to feel like you have to be ready and have to have everything put together because there’s a balance with that. The Lord will make sure that you’re ready enough to not mishandle his people, which is his most prized possession. But also that you’re not ready enough so that you don’t feel like you’ve doing it in your own strength or that you’ve done it in your own strength. And you don’t feel like you’ve done it in a way that you can take the credit for what God has done in your life.

So he he puts us in this perfect balance of when I call you to do something, I’m going to make sure you’re equipped enough to not mishandle my people, to not give them bad doctrine, to not give them things that will derail them and derail their destinies, but I’m gonna also make sure that you’re not equipped enough so that you don’t do this in your own strength.

Kimberly Faith: I love that. You know, that reminds me of something that I think it was Charles Spurgeon said about giving and about money. He said, I I pray that God and this comes right out of the Proverbs. Pray that God gives me enough so I don’t hate him, but not so much that I forget him. And I’m I’m paraphrasing, but that’s the same principle you’re talking about.

Yeah. You know?

Antwan J. Eaves: Because we really need that reliance and that dependence on him. What keeps us going.

Kimberly Faith: Well, and its original sin was independence from God, you know? Yeah. I mean, Eve said, oh, I can be like God. Let me eat that fruit, you know? And that is the struggle.

I was just I was just texting lady this morning about just trying to encourage her. Just, you know, we can when Jesus said be poor in spirit, he’s saying, you’re you’re nothing without me. That’s our attitude. We have to have that attitude. We can’t even breathe without him.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: And we need that for salvation, and we need it for life. And I I sorry. I can’t. I get excited. This is a great conversation.

Antwan J. Eaves: Oh, it is. It is. It is. I’ve been transitioning from there. Now, I’m preaching I’m preaching the Lord’s opening up doors.

I was able to get on our own radio station in Chicago and now I’m having to produce weekly content around 19, 20 years old. Oh. Now in college, you know, on this radio station, now in college. I’m in and out

Kimberly Faith: of So how many years ago was that? Not to date you or anything, but I know you’re young.

Antwan J. Eaves: I graduated high school in 2014. Okay. So this is in 2014, 2015.

Kimberly Faith: Okay.

Antwan J. Eaves: So about what was this? Twelve years ago now?

Kimberly Faith: Mhmm.

Antwan J. Eaves: Well, yeah. Eleven, twelve. Yeah. Eleven years ago. And it is just such amazing because at that point, I graduated high school, the Lord is using me, I’m preaching the gospel in different places.

I’m actually called back to Waynesville. I went to to Missouri State University for business marketing. And I’m called back to Waynesville to drive an hour and a half every week to be the youth pastor of the church where I accepted Jesus at. So I’m going back and to be the youth pastor of this church. I’m now licensed in ministry.

I went through a few years of ministers training, and I’m licensed in ministry and going back and to be the youth pastor of this church. And then the Lord is using me on campus and the singing group, and I’m going to different campus ministries on campus. And all along, I’m I’m feeling a burden to start a ministry on Missouri State’s campus because I knew that there was a hunger for the presence of God there. And that same feeling that I had when I accepted him as my Lord and savior, I’m like, you know, you don’t have to go to church or ministry to check off the block, but we serve a God that you can talk to, that you can experience, that you can walk with daily. And I wanted the campus to be able to experience the presence of God and also the nearness of God.

And I knew that what I was experiencing up to that point, it was wonderful. It was great. And I’m not saying that the ministry that God called us to start there was the all to all by any means, but it was a missing piece of what the Lord wanted to do on that campus.

Kimberly Faith: And you’re not and you’re also not saying that church is not important. You’re you’re just saying that you don’t have to be in church to experience presence of God like it’s been presented in many cases. Church is critical, obviously, because that’s

Antwan J. Eaves: It is critical. Yeah.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. That’s the foundation, the carrier of truth, right?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. It’s the assembling of ourselves together for sure. Yeah. And so on campus, we start this campus ministry in 2016. January of twenty sixteen, we started.

We have our service in September of twenty sixteen and we walk into this theater and the theater is full of college students. And it was so interesting because

Kimberly Faith: I never Did expect that?

Antwan J. Eaves: I did not expect that, number one. And number two, believe it or not, as I’m a young college student, I was not used to preaching to people my age. Know, I’ve done the older crowd. I was so used to preaching to, like, the adults because that’s how I started. Mhmm.

I was teaching, you know, fellowship of Christian athletes and I would begin to teach the youth at my church as a youth pastor. But as far as a service experience, a church experience, preaching the gospel to, like, young people, really never done. And that was a little nerve wracking for me because I’m like, okay, you know, I preach to the older ones and, you know, they they celebrate me no matter what, I’m young. But these young people

Kimberly Faith: Just polite. People are just polite that way. Right?

Antwan J. Eaves: Exactly. These young people, you know, they might look at me like there’s something wrong with me. God, what do I do? And I’ll never forget. I just I walked down and I preached and after that, the next month we had service.

We’re having services once a month, we begin to grow and grow and grow. And people from the community begin to come to this ministry, it’s called Occupy Campus Ministry. They begin to come to this ministry and then the professors and people from the university begin to come to this ministry and really, they’re experiencing God.

Kimberly Faith: I that I bet that was so encouraging for you.

Antwan J. Eaves: It was. It was. Because I’m like, it was like a kid in a candy store. I’m watching God build this ministry and I’m like, yes, God. Go.

Go. Go. Because I’m like, I know I couldn’t do this. It literally has to be God. Yeah.

If it’s something that’s manageable for us, oftentimes, I know it’s not necessarily a God thing. God has always called us to do things that are larger than us, bigger than us. We can’t manage it in our budget. We can’t manage it in our time. But it was something that was a lot larger than who we were.

And I’m like, man, God, you’re building this thing and you’re doing an amazing job. And

Kimberly Faith: Isn’t it amazing when when we recognize that the work that God is involving us in is not ours? And I always describe it like, I’m just hanging on to the saddle horn y’all, just hanging on. God is I’m just trying to stay keep up with God.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. Because when he does it, when God does it, it is way better and bigger than we can ever think or imagine.

Kimberly Faith: Yes. And

Antwan J. Eaves: that’s exactly what he did. And guess he can he continues to do it. What started at that campus at Missouri State University from that burden has grown to three other campuses and universities. And then we put in a team behind the scenes and we’re actively expanding Occupy to be able to plant more Occupy campuses across the country, celebrating ten years next year of doing consistent campus ministry. And And you’re down in Texas now.

Right? Yes. So we ended up launching another Occupy Campus Ministry and taking a staff to Austin, Texas and San Marcos, Texas, and we launched at Texas State University, the University of Texas. One thing I did also fail to mention is in 2018, through Occupy Campus Ministry, the Lord gave us a burden to launch a church in Springfield, Missouri called Dwelling Point Church. So we I oversaw Occupy at that point.

I wasn’t no longer pastoring Occupy. I started pastoring Dwelling Point Church. And then I’m still overseeing the the organization, Occupy Campus Ministry. And 2021, began to take a team here to Austin, Texas to plant Occupy Campus Ministries and then also launch Dwelling Point Church in Austin. So it’s been a phenomenal experience of becoming one that accepted Christ as my Lord and savior, developing a relationship with him, learning, what do we say, to know God, number one, to find my purpose, number two, and then number three, the stage of my life to make a difference.

And so knowing God, finding my purpose, and now making a difference has been a huge journey. It’s been a great roller coaster, just seeing what God has done.

Kimberly Faith: I like what you said, because it’s right out of the book of Ephesians that, you know, when Paul prayed for the Ephesians, he prayed that they would experience more than they could ask for or imagine.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: And I feel like when we the more we surrender every area of our life to God, he’s like, oh, good. Now watch this.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. It’s watch me work.

Kimberly Faith: Watch me do my thing because, you know, I run the universe and I create everything good that you love and if you just would let go, I can do some stuff that’s just gonna blow your mind. I like to just I like to live life letting God blow my mind, know?

Antwan J. Eaves: Sounds like you do too. Yeah. Like, what do you mean I can’t do that? Like, I’m the God that created the universe. Like, yeah.

What do you mean? I can’t get this. Right. Move over. Move aside.

Step aside.

Kimberly Faith: Exactly. So tell us about your book.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. So last year leadership, we mentioned I was a drum major in high school. I actually became a drum major my freshman year of high school. Wow. At the end of my freshman year of high school.

And it was something that I was completely enamored with. I remember being back in Waynesville in grade and I saw the high schoolers come to this to our school and they were marching around this track. And I my eyes went to the front of the marching band. It was the drum majors. And I’m like, who are they?

Like, who are those people? I was very good at my saxophone at this point. I was a chair in this band right behind this guy named Dallas, and I’m playing, I’m practicing. Me and him are going back and I’m trying to get his chair. And as soon as I saw them, I I begin to look up, what is this drum major thing?

And all throughout the end of my grade year, throughout that summer and through grade, I’m looking up how to be a drum major. I’m studying conducting patterns. I’m studying how to lead this band, how to how to be a great leader at a young age. At this point, you know, I mentioned how visible that I’ve been throughout high school. I’m a very shy person.

I was very introverted. Yeah. I still am introverted, but I was extremely shy back then. You know? You can be introverted, but to be shy is another thing.

I I talked to, you know, some friends, but as far as people in public speaking, I was not going to do it. And so I’m preparing. I’m getting myself together, and I stopped practicing my instrument. I’m just trying to become this drum major. And the night before my audition, I film myself conducting in the mirror and I looked at my video and I still have this video.

I looked at this video of me conducting in this mirror and I’m, like, lagging behind the music. I’m, like, I’m I’m not in time. And I remember physically crying. I’m looking at this I’m, like, auditions are tomorrow. There’s all have been only one person that has ever made drum major at Waynesville High School as a freshman, and he’s the current drum major right now.

They’re not going to do this. I don’t even talk to the band directors. They don’t know me. And we’ve already been through marching band and concert band. I’m in the there’s a good band and there’s a bad band, a great band and a lower band.

And I’m in the bad band. I’m in the lower band at this point of my life. I because I’m not practicing anymore. I’m trying to be the drum major. Right.

And somehow, someway, I made drum major. They were completely astonished. They were completely surprised. And they’re like, Antoine, you did such a great job. And where did that come from?

And I walked out of that audition not knowing if I was gonna make it, saw my name on there. I am now going to be next year, one of the three drum majors. And I noticed from that point of my life, everything as it pertains to leadership and visibility, I focused on. I focused on visibility. I focused on leadership.

Every competition, I would strive to win outstanding drum major. We won every outstanding drum major award besides one and I I never forget that day, but we won every outstanding drum major award. And I noticed something that I was naturally gifted at a lot of things. I became naturally gifted as a leader. I began to give the best public speeches, motivational speeches as a drum major.

But behind the scenes, I was still struggling with my instrument. I stopped practicing. I was not practicing. I was not focused on any of that. And every year, sophomore year, bad band.

Junior year, lower band. Senior year, I’m not gonna even do concert band anymore.

Kimberly Faith: Well, know, let me just let me just pause. Something that comes to my mind as you’re talking is that I mean, I remember when you were the drum major, I remember thinking, man, he is so good at that. And, of course, I had no idea you were shy because, know, I don’t have shy people in my life. They just all act I make them all act like they’re gonna talk all the time. But, they may think they’re shy until we have a conversation.

But I remember thinking, man, what a gift of leadership. And as you’re talking, of course, I didn’t know this backstory, I’m thinking what a great preparation for you as a drum major to become a God major.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes.

Kimberly Faith: Just kinda corny, but

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. I’m a drum major for the Lord now.

Kimberly Faith: Exactly. Exactly. So go home.

Antwan J. Eaves: Yeah. So at that point, I noticed because I’ve always been naturally gifted. I don’t recall growing up and studying much at all. I was one that could go to class, not do, you know, much homework at all, not do any studying and get good grades, get great grades. You know, I’m getting As, occasionally a B.

And I’ve always been naturally gifted in things. And I noticed that when it came time to, you know, the instrument that I wouldn’t apply myself, it and it was because it wasn’t necessarily something that was visible. And anyone that had a problem with me being drum major or anything like that, I’m like, do they not see that I’m doing a great job as a leader? I’m doing a great job as a drum major. So I wrote this book and it’s called Last Chair Leadership.

And the subtitle of that is really about the mask of gifts of gifts and talents and the also the hidden cost of chasing the spotlight. And I began to notice in my life that there was a pattern that I would often focus on what was visible, but the things that were not seen, I would not focus on. And I began to understand that it wasn’t just me that had this thing, that there was a group of people around the world that have always been naturally gifted and because they’ve been naturally gifted, they haven’t focused on doing the things to apply themselves to be better. It’s like the standardized testing. Like, if you’re great at taking tests, like, you get a standardized test, like, I’m gonna do great.

But what happens when our capacity is a lot different than someone else’s and because our capacity is a lot different than someone else’s, our lack of effort produces great results. How much more effort could we what how much more effort could we put into something if we knew that that was going to raise the bar, if that was going to produce a new standard? And so I wrote this book about the cost of chasing the spotlight, the hidden cost of specialization, the mask of gifts and talent. And I really wanted this book to be able to speak to those that desire to lead, but may not be focusing on all the things that make them a great leader. Because here I am, this drum major and behind the scenes, I’m struggling.

Not just in band, but I’m struggling with life. So I wrote this book to encourage people on how to be a better leader and focus on all the things that make them a great leader, not just the things that are visible.

Kimberly Faith: I truly love that. Especially the transparency that you have in sharing this story because I think as leaders, we want to have this impression that we give that we got it all together, you know. And one of the things that’s very similar to what you’re talking about that I use when I teach people is, you know, if you are not developing your relationship with God, you will not produce the fruit of the spirit because there it’s his fruit. You can’t love, you can’t have joy, you can’t have peace that is God’s without God.

Antwan J. Eaves: Without him.

Kimberly Faith: That’s right. And if you’re not working on the hard stuff in your daily quiet time, in your daily prayer time, your devotional time, if you’re not having a relationship with God and working at that relationship, then you’re gonna be a leader who leads people astray, who leads people down, who leads people on crazy, you know, because you can’t fake the spirit.

Antwan J. Eaves: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: And I think that’s that’s kind of what you’re talking about. What a timely book. What a timely book. Where by the way, where can we find this book?

Antwan J. Eaves: You can find this in most places that books are sold. You can find it on Barnes and Noble online, but Amazon has been the place where most people have been getting it. Just type in Last Year Leadership. My name Antwan Eaves and you’ll be able to find that. Just type in Last Year Leadership, you’ll be able to find

Kimberly Faith: How do you spell your last name, Antwan?

Antwan J. Eaves: Antwan, I’ll spell the whole thing, a n t w a n, and then last name is e a, v as

Kimberly Faith: in Victor, e s. Okay. And do you have a website too?

Antwan J. Eaves: Yes. I do. Actually, people can go visit my website at antwaneaves.com, antwaneavasinvictor,es.com.

Kimberly Faith: Great. Well, I think there’s there’s just so much you have I mean, I’m kind of speechless right now, actually, at what the Lord is doing. Several times during this podcast, I could just feel, I call the Holy Spirit goosebumps, you know, you know, you’re in Austin, I’m in Missouri, and yet the Spirit has connected us by way of technology. And I just, I think that you’re an inspiration to me. And I want, you know, to support your ministry in a way that gives you, like you mentioned earlier, people giving you platforms.

You know, our platforms mean nothing without the Holy Spirit empowering us. And it makes my heart rejoice to see that your life is not about you, it’s about God. And so, you know, from that perspective, you know, if you’re listening to this podcast and you feel like you should be helping Antoine support his ministry, reach out to him on his website, buy his book. And, you know, because it’s all for the glory of God. It’s all for the glory of God.

Antwan J. Eaves: All for the glory of God.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. And I thank you so much for being my guest today.

Antwan J. Eaves: I thank you for having me. We had such a great conversation. I had such a great time.

Kimberly Faith: Yeah. That was really good. And and I’m I’m pretty sure now I don’t know the future, but I’m pretty sure we’re gonna have to do this again.

Antwan J. Eaves: We’re definitely gonna have to do this again.

Kimberly Faith: Because I I know that there’s a lot of people listening to this podcast who know of you because, you know, there’s a lot of local people around here who who remember your your great prowess as a a drum major, but also just as a person in the community who a lot of people were watching you when you were in high school and saw that transformation and to see that ten years later, you know, that it’s like a zenith, you know. I know that you understand this when I say this, but when we say we wanna burn out for God, I mean, we wanna not get burned out, but we wanna have God’s light shining in our life until our heart stops, you know.

Antwan J. Eaves: Exactly.

Kimberly Faith: And and I feel like you’re on that path. And so I really appreciate you taking the time out of your crazy schedule to visit with us this this morning and just pray God’s blessings on you, Antoine.

Antwan J. Eaves: Thank you so much. My honor. My honor.

Kimberly Faith: Alright. Well, you’ve been listening to Truth and Love podcast and with our guest Antoine Eves. And if you have been listening and and wanna check out his book or his website, he he gave you the information how to how to do that. Check out his website, antoineeves.com. And I think you’ll be very blessed and inspired by his life.

Have a great week, everyone.

Jacob Paul: You’ve been listening to the truth and love podcast with your host, Kimberly Faith. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us at gofaithstrong.com. He rescued me.w